Originally posted by hypotheticalReally, if you continue to try and prove something is true by using reasoning which is an obvious fallacy then I will not bother to repeat myself.
Genesis 1 -
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 Go ...[text shortened]... spect what can you prove without a doubt that God does not know?
Wake up!! as it seems you don't know that you a really alive.
Originally posted by lucifershammerIf they knew that earth was round in the year 250 BC, and no one dared to go west crossing the Atlantic - then where and why was the round earth thought forgotten?
You really need to learn your history:
[... text shortened ...]
If you're going to diss Christianity, the least you can do is get your facts straight.
"If you're going to diss Christianity," - I don't understand, what does 'diss' mean?
If 'diss' means disregard, then you're wrong. I have highest respect for Christianity, as all other religions. I've said it before: Every religion is worth taking seriously that takes other religions seriously.
Originally posted by liteswordatlitespeedThe cosmologists says, and have proven, that Universe as we know it was created in a BigBang some 14 billion years ago.
The Big Bang...
who said that the universe was created by a Big Bang?
The Bible just says "God created..."
Never says how he created, so you already assume too much.
(edit- Fabian I thank you for creating this.)
The observation of back ground radiation in the right wavelength and intensity confirms the theory.
The BigBang was not known when the Bible was written.
Originally posted by hypotheticalBy whose standards, you ask?
By whose standards are you saying we know ALOT about the universe and nature?
Every day scientists are uncovering new and perplexing discoveries in some things we have taken for granted in our everyday life. Scientists are always improving on the equipment they use to study the solar system and beyond. They are discovering new galaxies, stars, black ...[text shortened]... edge of the Lord God Almighty. God's knowledge, understanding, and wisdom can never be grasped.
I say we know more than ever. We know things that was thought unknowable not many decades ago.
A totally new area of knowledge is sprouting in the field of quantum gravitation and string theory. The frontline of the knowledge of mankind is widening fast.
But you're totally right. Every answer to older questions give rise to a set of new question. The questions are more important than the answers. Without new questions we will never learn more. This is exactly what science is about.
Originally posted by liteswordatlitespeed"Therefore, from that derivation, it is possible to know the Truth!", you say using texts from the bible.
john 8:32
"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
This word "truth", in the Greek, can be correlated to the word "truth used in John 14:6 "For I am the way, the [b]truth, and the life. Noone may come to the father except through me."
Therefore, from that derivation, it is possible to know the Truth!
😏😏😏
(edit-sorry for the double-post, guys.)[/b]
I say no. You can only learn more and more about the Truth, you can only nearer yourself asymptotically the Truth, you cannot ever reach it. Those who say they know the Truth does not know what the Truth is, not even the meaning of The Truth.
I don't know what the Truth is. I have only my own truths to rely on. My truths and others are not alike. And my truth and The Truth is certainly not the same, this I know for sure.
Originally posted by ahosyneyAnd I say it again – There are religions without any gods. In your religion you believe in your God. How is this relevant for a person having another religion?
I think it is all about GOD existance.
If you belive that GOD exist and GOD created you and one day he will ask you about your life. So religon come to answer the question, what GOD wants from us.
Religon is the manual for human life. Manufacture of an appliance know the best operating rules to operate a device and write that in the Manual. GOD as a ...[text shortened]... f you belive that GOD is not there why do you worry about anything. Why do you need religon for.
"Why do you need religon for", is a very good question.
Why is there really a need for a religion in the 21st century?
Originally posted by PalynkaThis is interesting. Does an religion own The Truth?
I think you avoided LH's point. What is the purpose of religion if it is not about absolute truth?
For example:
Jesus is thought for a Christian that Jesus is divine, son of god, right? It is considered being a Truth.
Jesus is thought for a Muslim that Jesus is one of the most important prophets, but not the son of God. It is also considered being a Truth.
Jesus is known for Jews, not to be son of god despite he was a Jew. It is also considered being a Truth.
Buddhists think that Jesus is a guru, a man with deep insights but not divine and certainly not a son of any God. It is also considered being a Truth.
Now, the existence of Jesus is interpreted differently for many religions and all these religions thinks that they has The Truth of this.
Then this cannot be a Truth, only a common truth for them. Jesus, son of God, is not a Truth.
Is one truth better than another truth? Can any truth be The Truth? Questions, questions...
But the most important question - what religion has the monopoly of The Truth?
Every religion member who says 'Mine, Mine!!!" is not worthy of any respect, in my opoinion.
Originally posted by whodeyYou are right there. You express my thoughts more elegantly that I did myself.
I thought you said ultimate truth was unknowable? You say that one day man will know all there is to know about everything. Unfortunatly for us, it seems that the more knowledge we obtain the more questions are generated from such knowledge. Assuming you are right and man will one day reach the pinnacle of knowledge, what then? Who cares? Enjoy such know ...[text shortened]... is but a vapor. Once you die all such knowledge/truth will be nothing more than pure vainity.
Remember the difference between the truth and The Truth.
The truth can very well be individual and may very well differ from others individual truths.
The Truth, on the other hand, is universal and absolute.
Man all these idiots trying to take down Christianity at the root...
now...
Does God exist...
The obvious answer is...
YES.
Thomas Aquinas' cosmological argument.
The first way:
THE UNMOVED MOVER
) Nothing can move itself.
2) If every object in motion had a mover, then the first object in motion needed a mover.
3) This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called God.
The second way:
THE UNCAUSED CAUSER
1) There exists things that are caused (created) by other things.
2) Nothing can be the cause of itself (nothing can create itself.)
3) There can not be an endless string of objects causing other objects to exist.
4) Therefore, ther must be an uncaused first cause called God.
The third way:
CONTINGENT AND NECESSARY BEINGS
1) Contingent beings are caused.
2) Not every being can be contingent.
3) There must exist a being which is necessary to cause contingent beings.
4) This necessary being is God.
The fourth way:
DEGREES AND THE STANDARD OF PERFECTION
There must be something that is the epitome of perfection or else we would not be human. We would be little gods running around with special powers and stuff and we would all be perfect. Therefore since we can discern good from evil, there must be an epitome of a good quality and an epitome of an evil quality (God and Lucifer).
TAKE THAT, ALL OF YOU THAT WERE TRYING TO DISPROVE GOD'S EXISTENCE!!!!
Originally posted by PalynkaReligion is not and has never been about absolute truth or even the search for it. I have never met a single religious person who claimed to have become religous after searching for the truth. Rather they were searching for 'meaning' and 'fulfilment' and a way to avoid death. The fact that "the truth" provides none of these explains why they continuously try to avoid it.
I think you avoided LH's point. What is the purpose of religion if it is not about absolute truth?
I think that even LH would conceed that if religion was solely about the search for truth then Christianity would have a much larger science component as the observable universe is definately a large part of "the Truth" whatever your beliefs may be.
Does God exist...
The obvious answer is...
YES.
No.
Thomas Aquinas' cosmological argument.
The first way:
3) This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called God.
This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called The Flying Speghetti Monster. (or the Big Bang).
The second way:
4) Therefore, ther must be an uncaused first cause called God.
Therefore, there must be an uncaused first cause called The Flying Speghetti Monster. (or the physical universe).
The third way:
CONTINGENT AND NECESSARY BEINGS
4) This necessary being is God.
This necessary being is The Flying Speghetti Monster. (or the first self replicating structure, however that first came about - it had billions of planets orbiting billions of stars over billions of years. Chance could well be enough).
The fourth way:
DEGREES AND THE STANDARD OF PERFECTION
There must be something that is the epitome of perfection or else we would not be human. We would be little gods running around with special powers and stuff and we would all be perfect. Therefore since we can discern good from evil, there must be an epitome of a good quality and an epitome of an evil quality (God and Lucifer).
This one just makes no sense at all. So you say that if there were no 'epitome of perfection', we would be perfect? You contradict yourself. All we are is intelligent apes. Animals. Nothing more or less.
TAKE THAT, ALL OF YOU THAT WERE TRYING TO DISPROVE GOD'S EXISTENCE!!!!
Well all of that was pretty vague logic for proving any kind of supernatural being. It's no evidence whatsoever for any particular God. Could just as easily be Thor or the Flying Speghetti Monster.
--- Penguin.
Originally posted by liteswordatlitespeedYou call others idiots but post the following: ?
Man all these idiots trying to take down Christianity at the root...
1) Nothing can move itself.
This is false and quite obviously so. Cant you move?
1) There exists things that are caused (created) by other things.
Not true. Nothing in the universe is created, its called the conservation of energy.
1) Contingent beings are caused.
False again.
Next time you try to copy and paste use your brain!
Originally posted by liteswordatlitespeedYou write: "Man all these idiots trying to take down Christianity at the root...
Man all these idiots THAT WERE TRYING TO DISPROVE GOD'S EXISTENCE!!!!
Does God exist... The obvious answer is... Yes"
How do you think your belief will be respected when you don’t respect others beliefs?
Do you really think that you have the absolute Truth on your hand, and no one else? Who are you, God himself?
If you have to insult others by telling them they're idiots (the majority of the world is actually not sharing your view) then your faith must be weak.
You write further: "Take that, all of you that were trying to disprove God's existence!!!!"
And again, if you feel threatened by others disbeliefs, then your faith must be weak.
Only by allowing others to have their own beliefs in religious matters – only then people might see your beliefs and thoughts as interesting, perhaps even important.
Originally posted by twhiteheadReligion is not and has never been about absolute truth or even the search for it.
Religion is not and has never been about absolute truth or even the search for it. I have never met a single religious person who claimed to have become religous after searching for the truth. Rather they were searching for 'meaning' and 'fulfilment' and a way to avoid death. The fact that "the truth" provides none of these explains why they continuously ...[text shortened]... ervable universe is definately a large part of "the Truth" whatever your beliefs may be.
Then you don't know the first thing about religion. Every religion is an answer to the quest for absolute truth, the nature of our lives and reality.
I have never met a single religious person who claimed to have become religous after searching for the truth.
I would describe myself thus. But if you want more famous examples, there's CS Lewis, James McDowell, Anthony Flew (who prefers the more PC "spiritual" to "religious" ), Edith Stein and GK Chesterton.
Rather they were searching for 'meaning' and 'fulfilment' and a way to avoid death.
Four of the five people mentioned above were philosophers. Trust me -- they were looking for truth.
I think that even LH would conceed that if religion was solely about the search for truth then Christianity would have a much larger science component as the observable universe is definately a large part of "the Truth" whatever your beliefs may be.
Have you never heard of the Vatican Observatory? Gregor Mendel? Seismology aka "The Jesuit Science"? Do you know how many craters on the moon are named after astronomers who were priests or members of a religious order?
Honestly, do learn your history.
EDIT: You might also want to take a look at JPII's encyclical on the relationship between faith and reason - Fides et Ratio - sometime; but keep a Dictionary of Philosophy handy.