Originally posted by sumydid" I spent my first 37 years staunchly Agnostic, with neither respect nor admiration for any Christian whatsoever."
And yet, I grew up with no Mother, an Atheist and Occultist Father, and a Pagan for a brother whom I looked up to. I spent my first 37 years staunchly Agnostic, with neither respect nor admiration for any Christian whatsoever.
I'm living proof that anyone can transform.
Of course, I don't expect anyone outside the Family to believe much of anything I say, so, whatever.
I would assert that you could not have been a real Agnostic, you may have thought you were an Agnostic but you could not have been.
Originally posted by kevcvs57"you do not believe in my god, because you cannot believe in my god, because you do not believe in my god". (kevcvs57)
Yeah fair enough, sounds like yet another Christian circular argument though, i.e you do not believe in my god, because you cannot believe in my god, because you do not believe in my god.... tell me when you want to jump off this 'Magic Roundabout'.
Kev, please think back to all of the major decisions you've made with less than all of the facts spelled out in bold relief, because you were faced with hard deadlines. You rolled the information around and around in your mind, slept on it and discussed options with friends. Then, you took a decision! Those decisions had ramifications and consequences.
Reminds me of Grove, a Senior Executive with the Medical/Surgical Division of Colgate Palmolive. We were in the board room. I'd gotten wound up in my underwear analyzing a series of a new hospital product marketing options on the table; after twenty minutes or so, Grove leans across the polished mahogany and with a wry smile whispers, "Bobby, these types of calls are a little like circumcision. You play around with it for awhile and then nip it off." Verbatim, I swear.
At the risk of an unintended pun, the new advanced surgical dressings product launch was an unprecedented success; we caught our major competitors looking the wrong way with their pants down. We were both promoted from Chicago to Boston the next year. He was a mentor at a crucial time in my career, just as Pastor Robert Thieme of Houston, TX, has been in the systematic teaching of God's Word from the Original Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek. Without an accurate frame of reference, nobody learns a damn thing worth knowing. Point, you're not alone. Good Decisions from a Postion of Strength produce happiness. Bad Decisions from a Position Weakness yield untold misery and pain. (gb)
.
1 edit
Originally posted by FMF"... you've described how you have close friends who are uninterested in your claims that they are "Spiritually Brain Dead"
If all these superstitious assertions and self-sanctifying capital letters help you somehow come to terms with the fact that you are going to die, like we all do, and help you conjure up vicarious "meaning" in the meantime, then good for you. But you've described how you have close friends who are uninterested in your claims that they are "Spiritually Brain Dead" [ who are equally unaffected - spiritually or intellectually - by your attempted browbeating. 🙂
Not quite, rather a categorical summarization of the status of Dichotomous Human Beings.
.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbySo do you have close friends and/or families who are ex-Christians or not?
"... you've described how you have close friends who are uninterested in your claims that they are "Spiritually Brain Dead"
Not quite, rather a categorical summarization of the status of Dichotomous Human Beings.
.
1 edit
Originally posted by sumydid"Of all the words I would use to describe God, "gentleman" isn't one of them." (sumydid)
Of all the words I would use to describe God, "gentleman" isn't one of them. As Christians, we are drawn to pray -- we can't help it. And we are told to pray. But the conundrum is, as Jesus said in the bible, what we pray for has already been settled; we are told to pray by giving thanks for the result we desire. In other words, what we desire is already do t in each case, exactly what I prayed for occurred, in the exact detail I prayed for it.
My sense was that Suzianne's point is that God's a gentleman because He's Just which means He's Fair.
.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyBobby please understand, I do not think you are just wrong, I do not think the word 'wrong' has any place in the SF, I think you have succumbed to a comfort blanket shaped delusion, I only remonstrate in the hope that you will peek out from under the blanket and see there are no boogie men or angels, just a brightly coloured, frenetic universe waiting to be understood.
"you do not believe in my god, because you cannot believe in my god, because you do not believe in my god". (kevcvs57)
Kev, please think back to all of the major decisions you've made with less than all of the facts spelled out in bold relief, because you were faced with hard deadlines. You rolled the information around and around in your mind, slept ...[text shortened]... happiness. Bad Decisions from a Position Weakness yield untold misery and pain. (gb)
.
Originally posted by kevcvs57Forget 'Bobby'. You, your eternal happiness is what matters. Apparently, you are both deaf and blind to the awesome
Bobby please understand, I do not think you are just wrong, I do not think the word 'wrong' has any place in the SF, I think you have succumbed to a comfort blanket shaped delusion, I only remonstrate in the hope that you will peek out from under the blanket and see there are no boogie men or angels, just a brightly coloured, frenetic universe waiting to be understood.
magnitude of these issues. 95-97% of this internet forum's content amounts to garbage served up as frilly pom poms.
.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyNo offence but I think you probably contribute more than 3-5% of the posts in the forums, thus at least some of your posts are "garbage served up as frilly pom poms." according to your own research.
Forget 'Bobby'. You, your eternal happiness is what matters. Apparently, you are both deaf and blind to the awesome
magnitude of these issues. 95-97% of this internet forum's content amounts to garbage served up as frilly pom poms.
.
1 edit
Originally posted by sumydidObviously this calls for speculation, but do you imagine those things would not have come to pass had you not prayed for them?
I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've prayed while heavily under the power of the Holy Spirit, and I can also attest that in each case, exactly what I prayed for occurred, in the exact detail I prayed for it.
Originally posted by checkbaiterSo how did he do it? How does a spirit go about planting a seed inside someone?
God who created the heavens and the earth. I don't find it hard to believe God created a seed inside Mary.
Conception requires DNA from mother and father meeting inside the mother via a sperm and an egg, how does a virgn birth happen without the DNA part from the father?
3 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneGosh, Suzianne, you complain about me having a chip on my shoulder?
Yes, and lots choose another religion, for which some believe they are going to be tossed into a Lake of Fire.
I just see no reason why anyone should reasonably conclude that one religion is right over many others.
You speak like many other atheists here. Like you have a chip about a mile wide on your shoulder.
I am afraid I seriously do hose who already know of him and have already rejected him receive no 'second chance'.
I simply state that I see no reason to choose one religion over another, and you say I have a chip about a mile wide. Where does this come from?
I entered the debate when checkbaiter said that 'unbelievers' will be tossed into a Lake of Fire, and my equiry since then has been about whether this is reasonable for those brought up in another faith.
You then jump on me and say 'Perhaps you should not toss every follower of a certain religion into the same pot'.
Did I once ever suggest that every Christian believed this? Or that you did?
If, in the context, you felt I was claiming this for Christians as a whole, or even for you, then the mistake may have been mine in terms of not being clearer in my wording, but you have leaped to a conclusion that is both incorrect and unfair.
Perhaps you might reflect on the fact that perhaps not all atheists are the same?
4 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneHonestly, Suzianne, where did I insult your religion? I even put the 'ridiculous' in inverted commas, as I was repeating your language and said explicitly that no offence was intended.
Well, out of the three you put forth, I believe in about 1 and a half.
Yes, there was a virgin birth. Yes, miracles were performed. I do not believe that miracles 'continue to be performed to this day'. And I do not believe the world was created 6,000 years ago in 7 (24-hour) days.
I would say to you that believing in a virgin birth is a cornerston maybe you shouldn't be asking the scary questions. (Where did I hear that before?)
I meant this simply to say that a virgin birth is, in human terms, scientifically impossible, just a swan impregnating a woman is. To different perspectives, this is equally 'ridiculous'.
That is all I intended and I don't think that is insulting your religion. I apologise if I caused unintended offence.
1 edit
The turn this conversation's taken reminds me of hikers sitting around in a circle within a few steps from their tents on some bitterly cold night at an elevation they knew would present challenges. Kindling and logs have already been provided. All have matches or lighters available in their gear sacks. Yet, they freeze. All are intellectually stymied and content to swap thoughts on virtually any topic under the sun; to speculate on what it might be like to once again be warm; and to complain about the complexities of camping, while none have the motivation or will to get up off their loquacious butts to get the damn fire lit. The scenario's laughable, heart wrenching and pitiful. Why, so often, does random chat trump decisive action?
-
Originally posted by Proper KnobI won't pursue this any longer because I don't think it would make any difference. You would not believe if someone were raised from the dead in front of your very eyes.
So how did he do it? How does a spirit go about planting a seed inside someone?
Conception requires DNA from mother and father meeting inside the mother via a sperm and an egg, how does a virgn birth happen without the DNA part from the father?
Men loved darkness and would not come to the light, is the way Jesus put. He was spot on.