08 Oct 12
Originally posted by Agerg🙂 I think you protest to much. If posting worries you, I understand you
Given your response here I was probably right to be worried about 3 then - it would have been a lengthy argument requiring your own interaction at certain stages.
are not up to it....don't worry be happy, its easier to knock someone else'
belief than defend your own, you being an example of that so FAR.
Kelly
08 Oct 12
2 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayWell I'm undertaking what you ask with Robbie Carrobie (and if he plays along it will be a lengthy game; but, for me at least (even if I do not change his mind), it may be a rewarding process). On the other hand I am suspicious about any intellectual rewards I might expect for engaging you in the same battle. Sorry but that's just the way I am... If I'm asked to spend significant time trying to present an argument it pisses me off when my efforts fail to be acknowledged.
🙂 I think you protest to much. If posting worries you, I understand you
are not up to it....don't worry be happy, its easier to knock someone else'
belief than defend your own, you being an example of that so FAR.
Kelly
I would be happy to dig up some links for you though (which would show at least the existence of non-magical explanations for the evolutionary formation of the eye - this itself would be far more than what you have offered here with regardsd your Fruit-DNA speculation)
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by AgergNo no, if you cannot be bothered to write your beliefs about how the eye
Well I'm undertaking what you ask with Robbie Carrobie (and if he plays along it will be a lengthy game; but, for me at least (even if I do not change his mind), it may be a rewarding process). On the other hand I am suspicious about any intellectual rewards I might expect for engaging you in the same battle.
I would be happy to dig up some links for you th ...[text shortened]... elf would be far more than what you have offered here with regardsd your Fruit-DNA speculation)
was formed at a very high level your links (someone else' thoughts are not
required) I don't need you to read what other people think. You are off the
hook, you may continue to mock me without putting up your thoughts on
this or any other topic.
Kelly
08 Oct 12
5 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm not trying to mock you KellyJay, I'm merely reacting to (and shielding myself from) your demonstrably dismissive nature regarding any to challenges to your beliefs. You have more about you than the likes of RJHinds but I'm not so sure we're compatible opponents (in the sense that I would probably get very annoyed with you very quickly- especially if several hours of my time in just one post were all for nought)
No no, if you cannot be bothered to write your beliefs about how the eye
was formed at a very high level your links (someone else' thoughts are not
required) I don't need you to read what other people think. You are off the
hook, you may continue to mock me without putting up your thoughts on
this or any other topic.
Kelly
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by AgergI really don't want to hear it. You went after something I said, said it was
I'm not trying to mock you KellyJay, I'm merely reacting to (and shielding myself from) your demonstrably dismissive nature regarding any to challenges to your beliefs. You have more about you than the likes of RJHinds but I'm not so sure we're compatible opponents (in the sense that I would probably get very annoyed with you very quickly- especially if several hours of my time in just one post were all for nought)
not true I asked for you views, you don't want to be bothered. I am not
going to beg you or promise to be nice to you...I try to treat everyone as
well as I except to be treated. Not always good at that, but I make the
effort. You want to hit and run, feel free, no one is going to stop you!
A high level view of what it took to make the eye if that takes you hours
to put together...well I'm not sure you know what high level means...I'm
not asking for gritty details...the high points in order, just make sure no
magic is required.
Kelly
08 Oct 12
7 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayFor me high level still has to describe the entire topology in sufficient detail that I can ask informed questions at a lower level. For you it seems high level is quick bullet points (and powerpoint presentations annoy me - I want details damn it). Indeed given your views on this topic I would need to be damned careful that I construct the summary you want in such a way that if you followed the points I should reasonably expect you would agree with them. Further I need to cut down every opportunity for you to raise an objection (which would come about by an insuffucient level of detail or needless complexity (for the sake of brevity)).
I really don't want to hear it. You went after something I said, said it was
not true I asked for you views, you don't want to be bothered. I am not
going to beg you or promise to be nice to you...I try to treat everyone as
well as I except to be treated. Not always good at that, but I make the
effort. You want to hit and run, feel free, no one is going for gritty details...the high points in order, just make sure no
magic is required.
Kelly
So yes, I expect you to read lengthy posts, and participate in a lengthy exchange of ideas. Does this sound like something that would bore you?
If not I might put something together for you in spite of my (strong) pessismism.
08 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by AgergYes power points are better for me, we can as you know address the talking
For me high level still has to describe the entire topology in sufficient detail that I can ask informed questions at a lower level. For you it seems high level is quick bullet points (and powerpoint presentations annoy me - I want details damn it). So yes, I expect you to read lengthy posts, and participate in a lengthy exchange of ideas. Does this sound like ...[text shortened]... uld bore you?
If not I might put something together for you in spite of my (strong) pessismism.
points as you lay them out. I don't want you to go out of your way to spend
hours putting together something as you describe it. ( I will for my part tell
you I'm sorry for the grief I sent your way now that I know why you were
complaining!) For me power points allows us to pick and choose those parts
of the process we need/want to discuss avoiding needless work on parts we
do not. After your points are on display you can as you see fit address
anything that requires more attention due to questions (good or bad) I have.
You may if you wish start a new thread since we've left (kind of sort of) the
point of this one running down this rat hole. 🙂
Kelly
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieNo offense to you, but this is one of the most misguided things I've ever heard. Truth is not subjective, nor will it ever be.
truth isnt always truth, truth can be subjective.
"Subjective truth" is an idea embraced by many Secular Progressives, and it's baffling to me that so many people embrace such a patently false claim.
Teacher: "Class, who can tell me what 2+2 equals?"
Johnny: "3!"
Teacher: "Well, Johnny, if that's true for you, then you are correct."
NO. The answer is 4 and I don't care who you are or from what angle you look at it.
08 Oct 12
4 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayOk, Powerpoint syle, as I said, is not really my thing but I will take some time to put some sort of comprimise together (because at the very least I like to have preempted, and made some preparations for your objections)...it will happen though.
Yes power points are better for me, we can as you know address the talking
points as you lay them out. I don't want you to go out of your way to spend
hours putting together something as you describe it. ( I will for my part tell
you I'm sorry for the grief I sent your way now that I know why you were
complaining!) For me power points allows us to pick ...[text shortened]... nce we've left (kind of sort of) the
point of this one running down this rat hole. 🙂
Kelly
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by AgergAhhh, looking forward to it. Thank you for doing this too by the way!
Ok, Powerpoint syle, as I said, is not really my thing but I will take some time to put some sort of comprimise together (because at the very least I like to have preempted, and made some preparations for your objections)...it will happen though.
Kelly
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by Agergthe brick hardly decides to defy gravity, does it dear Agers. why you are willing to
I see...so you're trying to tell me that in spite of all your free-will to play any move you choose, there are constraints at work (which you call reasoning) via which you are incapable of actually playing some of those other moves? (a4 for example)
Tell me Robbie, given that a brick is free to move in any direction within 3-dimensional space, is it the cas ...[text shortened]... ning to decide when and where it should stop? (often this tends to be on the ground somewhere)
assign principles such as free will and reasoning to inanimate objects is bizarre to say
the least.
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by KellyJayif you really want to know, and i mean really want to know Kelly. Richard Dawkins spends 60 pages in this book -
I'm all for you correcting me on the formation of the eye, please give a
high level break down of the process without magic of course.
Kelly
http://www.amazon.com/Climbing-Mount-Improbable-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0393316823/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349681018&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=climbing+mount+imrpobable
explaining how the eye evolved. You can buy the second hand for $1.81 plus a few dollars postage and packaging. A trivial amount of money.
Now the question is this, are you going to educate yourself or are you just going to ignore it?
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by Proper KnobI've read some Dawkin's, he starts out basically with the assumption that life is
if you really want to know, and i mean really want to know Kelly. Richard Dawkins spends 60 pages in this book -
http://www.amazon.com/Climbing-Mount-Improbable-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0393316823/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349681018&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=climbing+mount+imrpobable
explaining how the eye evolved. You can buy the second ha ...[text shortened]...
Now the question is this, are you going to educate yourself or are you just going to ignore it?
just a like finding the right combination of a lock, given enough time you will
stumble upon the proper set of numbers and open the lock. This of course is a
huge assumption that basically starts off saying what he thinks is true is, and now
we look at what can be done after that. To get real odds on if something can be
done requires more than just sweeping assumptions he gave. I believe it was the
blindwatchmaker, I still have to book I believe, have not completely unpacked all
of our books since our move so I'm not sure I could lay my hands on it right away.
Kelly
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by KellyJayput it in your car in case you break down and have to buy an undersized battery, it will do more good there than on your book shelf.
I've read some Dawkin's, he starts out basically with the assumption that life is
just a like finding the right combination of a lock, given enough time you will
stumble upon the proper set of numbers and open the lock. This of course is a
huge assumption that basically starts off saying what he thinks is true is, and now
we look at what can be done aft ...[text shortened]... ll
of our books since our move so I'm not sure I could lay my hands on it right away.
Kelly