God, I just can't do it.

Posted by Rajk999:

Genuine believers in Jesus Christ do not preach that it is ok to disobey God or Christ. The entire Bible is about following after obedience and righteousness. The doctrine of Witness Lee is not of God.

We never said this, Rajk999. And Witness Lee never said this too because as you said you don't read cut and paste post.

Originally posted by kevinlee123
Life-Study of 1, 2, & 3 John, Jude by Witness Lee, Msg. 29, Section 4
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

[b]KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS AND PRACTICING THE THINGS THAT ARE PLEASING IN HIS SIGHT

In verse 22 John goes on to say, “And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and practice the things which are pl ...[text shortened]... ion for His abiding in us (John 15:4). We enjoy His abiding in us by our abiding in Him.

[/b]

Marvelously clear.
Thankyou.

Rajk999,

I think you would be benefitted by the cut and paste of the message above.

However, I would ask again you feeling about Paul saying that when he was weak then he was strong.

Did you ever think about what Paul meant by "when I am weak, then I am powerful." ?

"And He said, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness." ( 2 Cor. 12:9)

So if His power is perfected in my weakness, then what is wrong with me praying to the Lord that I am weak and I just can't do it?
It is rather helping me to come into more of the Lord's power being perfected in me.

So Paul actually boasts in his weakness and dependency on the grace of Christ. For he doesn't rely on his own power but the power of Christ. Right?

"Therefore I am well pleased in weaknesses ... for when I am weak, then I am powerful." (See v.10)

Powerful for WHAT?

Well, powerful to pass through difficulties - " ... in weakness, in insults, in necessities, in persecutions and distresses, on behalf of Christ ..."

Don't you agree that it is difficult to live unto Christ, to obey Him in difficult circumstances like these?

Paul also says the the sufficiency of the apostles is of God and not of themselves:

"And such confidence we have through Christ toward God,

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to account anything as from ourselves; but our sufficiency is from God." (2 Cor. 2:4,5)

This is the same matter in different words. Don't you think so?

Originally posted by sonship
Rajk999,

I think you would be benefitted by the cut and paste of the message above.

However, I would ask again you feeling about Paul saying that when he was weak then he was strong.

Did you ever think about what Paul meant by [b] "when I am weak, then I am powerful." ?

"And He said, My grac ...[text shortened]... (2 Cor. 2:4,5)

This is the same matter in different words. Don't you think so?[/b]

I disagree. It is not difficult to obey Christ.
I take the teachings of Christ seriously and I cannot see support for your conclusions from His teachings.

Lets agree that I dont care to follow your version of Christianity and you dont care to follow mine ... and thats that.

No I did not read the long cut and paste because a couple lines down it stops making sense.

No offence, not everyone needs to belong to your 'local church' . My path is different. We many end up the same place but I cannot allow your teachings to divert my course.

Originally posted by josephw
Produce names and quotes proving that there are any Christians in this forum that say grace is a license to sin and I will confront them.

In the mean time I'll just have to be content to confront you on your duplicity.

Bump again for josephw.

Well. OK. What about you yourself?

You have said: "The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire."

Originally posted by FMF
Bump again for josephw.

Well. OK. What about you yourself?

You have said: [b]"The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire."[/b]

I don't know what you're driving at here with that quote. What relationship does it have with the notion that grace is a "license" to sin?

I think you crisscrossed posts.

Originally posted by josephw
I don't know what you're driving at here with that quote. What relationship does it have with the notion that grace is a "license" to sin?

I think you crisscrossed posts.

Does it not mean you believe that, regardless of your sins, past and future, there is no chance whatsoever of you being "cast into the lake of fire"? If what you said ~ "The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire" ~ means something else, why not just explain?

Originally posted by Rajk999

I disagree. It is not difficult to obey Christ.
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How about this one?

"But I tell you not to resist him who is evil, rather whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also ..." (Matt. 5:39)

You seem like a pretty feisty fellow. This command of Christ is easy for you ? No difficulty here turning the other cheek for another slap on the face ?

I take the teachings of Christ seriously and I cannot see support for your conclusions from His teachings.
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As well we should take the teachings of Christ seriously. As well we should.

Do you have no difficulty in this command too ?

"And to him who wishes to sue you and take your tunic, yield to him your cloak also; " (v.39)

No difficulty whatsoever obeying Jesus here ?
Or here?

"And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two." (v.41)

I have to confess to the Lord "God, I just can't do it. I need to be greatly empowered in the Lord's grace. These kinds of uncompromising commands, leaving nothing for the self, call me to throw myself into Christ's mercy for His own life in me to rise up.

Lets agree that I dont care to follow your version of Christianity and you dont care to follow mine ... and thats that.
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Here, I thought we were going to for once have a peaceful talk in agape love. Oh well.

At any rate, like Paul I would say " not that we are sufficient of ourselves to account anything as from ourselves. Our sufficiency is of God."

Apparently, this, my so called "version of Christianity" you find unbiblical. Strange. Paul didn't.


No I did not read the long cut and paste because a couple lines down it stops making sense.
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If the Holy Spirit told you not to read it, then I agree you should not.
But if a still small voice said "Why not read it" and you ignored that, then maybe you missed the command of Jesus.

It certainly would not hurt for you to read it.
I plan to go back and read it again. It was very helpful.


No offence, not everyone needs to belong to your 'local church' .
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Of course everyone needs not belong to my local church. Everyone does not live in the locality of my local church. But it is good to find a normal church in which to fellowship.

Paul said the church in Corinth was a farm for growing Jesus Christ in people.

"For we are God's fellow workers, you are God's cultivated land [farm] God's building." ( 1 Cor. 3:9)

He was writing to "the church of God which is in Corinth" (1:2) - a local church. And this local church we a farm for growing Christ in people and also building them up into the temple of God practically.

" Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you.? (1 Cor. 3:16)

He is talking to the local church there in Corinth you know? Growing together and being built up together they were the local practical expression of the temple of God. Today God is recovering the local churches.


My path is different. We many end up the same place but I cannot allow your teachings to divert my course.
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How is me encouraging you to depend on Christ absolutely diverting your course ?

How is my teaching that apart from Christ we can do nothing, as He Himself taught, diverting your course ?

If you think you can obey God without the life of God, or obey Christ in your own natural strength, apart from His grace, then you are the one diverting the New Testament course.

And I noticed that you did not answer my question: What do you think Paul meant by "When I am weak, then I am powerful."
Why no explanation Rajk999 ?

Originally posted by sonship
[b] I disagree. It is not difficult to obey Christ.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

How about this one?

"But I tell you not to resist him who is evil, rather whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also ..." (Matt. 5:39)

You seem like a pretty feisty fellow. Th ...[text shortened]... think Paul meant by "When I am weak, then I am powerful."
Why no explanation Rajk999 ?[/b]

I think you have a problem with Christ, and His commandments. Not everyone you come across wiil be delighted with those 'loopholes' in the BIble.that seem to suggest that you dont have to follow Christ. A lot of your interpretation of what Paul wrote is wrong by the way so dont assume you are correct.

In any case you are not discussiing; you are preaching to me in order to convert me to your way of thinking. To me that is a step down. Its like you believe everyone must be like the cripple man at the side of the pool not able to go in. Is there some virtue in pretending to be cripple so that Ghrist can help?

You need to get over yourself.

Originally posted by Rajk999

I think you have a problem with Christ, and His commandments. Not everyone you come across wiil be delighted with those 'loopholes' in the BIble.
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You have not answered the question yet.


that seem to suggest that you dont have to follow Christ. A lot of your interpretation of what Paul wrote is wrong by the way so dont assume you are correct.
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You did not answer the question yet.
I am beginning to think you don't want to for some reason.


In any case you are not discussing; you are preaching to me in order to convert me to your way of thinking.
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No answer yet still.
Let's be honest about it. You probably know good and well that that is a commandment of Jesus which you find DIFFICULT to adhere to.

Self defense is so natural to you that turning the other cheek is probably the last think you would think of if you got slapped.
Why not just be honest about ?


To me that is a step down. Its like you believe everyone must be like the cripple man at the side of the pool not able to go in.
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That post was about SOME being strong and SOME being not able to meet the grade - a religion where "the strong survive."

Didn't say "everyone" could not make it down to the pool, so to speak.

When was the last time you had a very humbling failure ?
I mean like Peter, the leader of the 12 disciples , gung ho, sure of himself - "Everyone else may leave you Jesus. But not ME boy !! I'm with you even we have to DIE!"

That's brother Peter, the leader among the disciples.
When was the last time you mistook yourself for the disciple you WANTED to be ?

I'll tell you. If you claim to be a faithful Christian and have not known failure, I don't trust you.


Is there some virtue in pretending to be cripple so that Ghrist can help?
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There is virtue to being honest with God when you come to the realization, compared to the Son of God, you ARE a cripple.


You need to get over yourself.
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You got that right !
See ? I think you may be catching on after-all.

That's why I have found it good to pray - "God, I just can't do it." . He has to be my all and my everything - moment by moment, step by step, "I Need You every hour" as the old classic hymn goes.

Thanks.

Originally posted by josephw
I don't know what you're driving at here with that quote. What relationship does it have with the notion that grace is a "license" to sin?

I think you crisscrossed posts.

Does it not mean you believe that, regardless of your sins, past and future, there is no chance whatsoever of you being "cast into the lake of fire"? If what you said means something else, why not just explain? Here is what you said: "The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire" ~ [Bump for josephw]

Originally posted by FMF
Does it not mean you believe that, regardless of your sins, past and future, there is no chance whatsoever of you being "cast into the lake of fire"? If what you said means something else, why not just explain? Here is what you said: [b]"The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire" ~ [Bump for josephw][/b]

What I said was a hyperbolic reply to a question in another context.

Sin is a non-issue for the saved.

unbump

Originally posted by josephw
What I said was a hyperbolic reply to a question in another context.

So does that mean you retract it?

It was not "another context". It was exactly the same context as this one.

Originally posted by josephw
Sin is a non-issue for the saved.

Does this mean that they are "saved" regardless of whether they go on sinning? Is it a "non-issue" in this sense?

Originally posted by josephw
What I said was a hyperbolic reply to a question in another context.

Sin is a non-issue for the saved.

[b]unbump[/b]

Satan or the Devil [once faithful angel of God and certainly very 'saved'], and his followers made the same mistake. Imagine their surprise when this prophecy is fulfilled

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, ... and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I bet he thought that he could sin and escape the consequences of sin.

Imagine your surprise when this prophecy is fulfilled:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV)

God does not tolerate wilful and continuous sin from anyone. There comes a point when the door to forgiveness is shut, grace is finished and you will face the righteous judgment and fiery indignation of Christ. So lets hope you are living righteously in Christ.