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God is and forever shall be singularly unique, in that He is and forever will be the only one of His kind.
He has non-communicable attributes which He will never share, as you say. Yet He has communicable attributes which He will not fail to share with His sons.
To give an example. God alone is holy, different from all other things that exist, we might say. That is an attribute He alone has. Yet He planned to produce sons in whom is the same attribute:
1.) Holiness is God's alone - " ... You alone are holy ..." (Rev. 15:4)
2.) Holiness God will impart to sons - " Wherefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, ..." (Heb. 3:1)
In fact without saturation with this attribute from the Father none will see the Lord (as to have intimate fellowship with God)
"Pursue peace with all men, and holiness without which no one shall see the Lord." (Heb. 12:14)
Another attribute possessed by God which He will communicate to human beings is immortality.
1.) God ALONE possesses immortality - " ... the only Sovereign, the King of those who reign as kings and Lord of those who reign as lords, Who alone has immortality ..." (1 Tim. 6:15,16)
2.) His redeemed will be "swallowed up by [eternal] life"
and "put on immortality"
" ... this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality ... Death has been swallowed up in victory." (1 Cor. 15:54)
" ... what is mortal may be swallowed up by life." (2 Cor. 5:4)
God is infinite, and man will forever be finite. We are called to be godly, or God-like, not "God-men". I think the language we use to describe what the scriptures mean needs to reflect the meaning and intent of God's Word.
What Christ is as God-man, is to be duplicated in those saved by Christ. We exalt Him to a pedestal, as well we should. But we must go on to see that God's eternal purpose is that He be mass-produced as a corporate collective God-body that will be able to match Him in a "marriage".
To marry Him we must become like Him. God would not that this One would "abide alone" but would produce much fruit like Himself.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone, but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (John 12:24) [/b]
This is the duplicative aspect of Christ's salvation. The redemptive aspect involving forgiveness is for the duplicative aspect, that we be conformed to the image of the FIRSTBORN Son among many subsequently born.
"Because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He should be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29)
Christ is God-man by incarnation and resurrection.
The church is a body of God-men by Christ's full salvation.
In this sense Jesus is like the Captain Joshua, leading many sons into the the glory of the life of God expressed in man.
"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, to make the Captain of their salvation perfect through suffering." (Heb. 2:10)
God communicates also His divine nature into His saints. We saints are not only observers, worshippers, witnesses to the divine nature. We participate in that nature as "partakers of the divine nature"
" ... He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises, that through these we may become PARTAKERS of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust." (2 Peter 1:4)
Humility is good.
But we should not have a staggering unbelief or doubt in the plan of God to produce sons of God, to produce a matching corporate Spouse for the God-man Jesus Christ.
@sonship saidI love your insights sonship. We only disagree on some relatively minor points of doctrine. If even that.
God is infinite, and man will forever be finite. We are called to be godly, or God-like, not "God-men". I think the language we use to describe what the scriptures mean needs to reflect the meaning and intent of God's Word.
What Christ is as God-man, is to be duplicated in those saved by Christ. We exalt Him to a pedestal, as well we should. But we must ...[text shortened]... of God to produce sons of God, to produce a matching corporate Spouse for the God-man Jesus Christ.
I think it our use of certain terms, what we mean by them, and how we make their applications that you and I diverge. Not a big deal.
For example: above you used the term "duplicated". A duplicate is something exactly like something else. I'm not so sure of the use of that term to describe our future state.
The Bible says we will be "like him". 1 John 3:2 says, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
We are the sons of God, which is incredible and astounding in and of itself, but the verse also says it "doesn't appear what we shall be" until his appearing. Only then we know fully what it will mean to be "like him".
I'm just glad you didn't use the term "replica". 😉
@fmf saidI'm not concerned about your personal issues with what sonship says to you about himself with regards to his spirituality forum assertions relative to his personal Christian experience whether in this forum or otherwise.
sonship does. And I asked him for evidence of it.
@fmf saidCan you provide the references for your assertions that sonship said that it was "here in this community" that he was "becoming more like Jesus", and that he said "Jesus Christ is flowing through" him as he posts on this forum?
Do you believe that sonship is "becoming more like Jesus Christ" here in this community and that "Jesus Christ is flowing through" sonship as he posts on this forum?
After all you are notorious for mischaracterizing other's intent.
@sonship saidThe idea that you promote that anyone is going to 'marry' Christ literally or figuratively is unbiblical nonsense.
God is infinite, and man will forever be finite. We are called to be godly, or God-like, not "God-men". I think the language we use to describe what the scriptures mean needs to reflect the meaning and intent of God's Word.
What Christ is as God-man, is to be duplicated in those saved by Christ. We exalt Him to a pedestal, as well we should. But we must ...[text shortened]... of God to produce sons of God, to produce a matching corporate Spouse for the God-man Jesus Christ.
Revelation refers to the New Jerusalem as the bride of Jesus Christ. Paul refers to the church as the BODY OF CHRIST. The followers of Christ are never ever refered as the bride of Christ.
Even in parables
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. (Matthew 22:2-3 KJV)
They are invited to a marriage feast. They are not invited to marry anyone. Again
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (Mark 12:25 KJV)
Believers, followers etc are invited to the wedding feast of Christ. They are like angels, not like any bride or bridegroom.
New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ
The Church [the people] is the body of Christ.
Use the correct terminology.
@secondson saidNo. If people think I am lying about what sonship has claimed about himself, so be it.
Can you provide the references for your assertions that sonship said that it was "here in this community" that he was "becoming more like Jesus", and that he said "Jesus Christ is flowing through" him as he posts on this forum?
@secondson saidsonship's intent is to not substantiate his claim that "Jesus is flowing through" him and it is his intent not to substantiate his claim that he is "becoming more Jesus". I am not mischaracterizing his intent.
After all you are notorious for mischaracterizing other's intent.
@secondson saidIf it were a personal issue, I would be asking him about this by PM.
I'm not concerned about your personal issues with what sonship says to you about himself with regards to his spirituality forum assertions relative to his personal Christian experience whether in this forum or otherwise.
@fmf saidSonship did use the 'Jesus is flowing through him' phrase. I also remember him saying that Jesus appeared to him personally and he spoke to Jesus, literally. I think it was in the context of how Jesus appeared to Paul.
sonship's intent is to not substantiate his claim that "Jesus is flowing through" him and it is his intent not to substantiate his claim that he is "becoming more Jesus". I am not mischaracterizing his intent.
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For example: above you used the term "duplicated". A duplicate is something exactly like something else. I'm not so sure of the use of that term to describe our future state.
All things considered now, no I would not be saying "duplicated" in every conceivable way. Obviously no one can accomplish the work of redemption except Christ the only-begotten Son. No one can be the Head of the Body of Christ except Christ. There is "ONE Lord" Paul says in Ephesians 4:5. I would assume I do not mean these offices of the only-begotten Son are in any way duplicated.
We are all recipients as saved believers.
Having said that, we do have this striking teaching in John 12:24 that God did not desire the one grain to abide "ALONE" but to be reproduced.
The prayer on the Son's heart is that in eternity we would be where He is and like Him.
"Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
I don't regard this is a superficial sense - that Jesus wants us to have grandstand seat in heaven to get a good glimpse of Himself. I think for Him to desire that we would be with Him means to be in a divine state which He eternally enjoys - God mingled with man.
Now I sympathize with the cautionary tone of your post. But these things are usually much underplayed. I think we should give them MORE normal attention in the Gospel.
I am very patient and willing to receive more balancing caution from your considerations.
The Bible says we will be "like him". 1 John 3:2 says, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
Amen. You said it all there - First John 3:2. Notice that this is a manifestation of glory hidden and concealed during the church age. But during the church age, it says, as He is so are we in the world. In other words, though the visible splendor is not yet manifested, we are to be in the world inwardly, as He is now in heaven. We must learn to live Christ.
"In this has love been perfected with us, that we may have boldness in the day of the judgment because even as He is, so also are we in this world." (First John 4:17)
What an incentive to be saved and have the practical church life.
We are the sons of God, which is incredible and astounding in and of itself, but the verse also says it "doesn't appear what we shall be" until his appearing. Only then we know fully what it will mean to be "like him".
Amen. May we not be cheated.
I'm just glad you didn't use the term "replica".
No, Revelation says that Jesus has a name written that no one knows but He Himself.
He is unique eternally.
" And His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems, and He has a name written which no one knows but Himself." (Rev. 19:12)
He has an experience that no one else in the universe knows exactly what it was and is. Still though, God's eternal purpose is to conform the redeemed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God (Rom. 8:29)
What a difference it can make to our daily walk in Christ to believe and stand upon these precious promises.
Share again.
Sonship did use the 'Jesus is flowing through him' phrase. I also remember him saying that Jesus appeared to him personally and he spoke to Jesus, literally. I think it was in the context of how Jesus appeared to Paul.
FMF has a two pronged attack he has confidence in. He wants to go after my subjective experience, like insisting that I do not have joy. "You are so very joyless".
And he wants to posture like he will be persuaded if only evidence of the supernatural I can provide.
Evidence is not persuasion. I don't expect him to move from atheism because of any evidence I believe of Christ living in me.
Neither truths do I back down on.
We have a joy unspeakable and full of glory (1 Peter 1:8).
And for centuries Christians like myself has testified that the Holy Spirit is indeed like rivers of living water proceeding out from our innermost (INNERMOST) being.
Thirst quenching, watering, refreshing - Holy Spirit is the Christians just as Christ promised.
Do you think I am going to stop saying it is so, because some atheist is not persuaded of evidence I testify to?
It is a miracle that I even believe in Christ. On my own, I could never believe such a thing as the Gospel.
Its a supernatural miracle that my heart is opened to believe such a thing.
Thank God for the miracle.
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:44)
@sonship saidMy requests for you to offer some evidence of the supernatural claims you make about yourself is not an "attack". You are one of the most joyless Christians I have ever met, and you might not like my perspective on you, but at least I am not saying your ideas are like animal excrement or comparing you to an unclean dog or a cockroach.
FMF has a two pronged attack he has confidence in. He wants to go after my subjective experience, like insisting that I do not have joy. "You are so very joyless".
You make claims about yourself, I ask for evidence. The feeling of being "attacked" is just the feeling that your wheels are coming off - I think - because of the difficulty that you have with what you have conceded are "hard" questions and which trigger your regular flurries of joyless visceral insults, the likes of which I have never aimed at you in all the years I have been here.
@fmf saidBut you added to sonship's intent by claiming he said that Jesus was flowing through him and he was becoming more like Jesus as he was posting in this forum.
sonship's intent is to not substantiate his claim that "Jesus is flowing through" him and it is his intent not to substantiate his claim that he is "becoming more Jesus". I am not mischaracterizing his intent.
He may very well have, but I didn't see it, and I doubt your assertion that he did say it like that.
If the Bible is true, that what it says relative to what Christians are being transformed to, then you're missing the boat, and the concept of salvation, sanctification and glorification is lost on you.
Like I said in another post, you simply do no understand what sonship is talking about. Or you do, but because you choose not to "identify" with the truth of the doctrine of the gospel of Jesus Christ, you are adversarially motivated and seek to overthrow the truth of God's Word.
You do understand how hard a thing that is to say don't you?
@secondson saidI don't care what you "doubt".
But you added to sonship's intent by claiming he said that Jesus was flowing through him and he was becoming more like Jesus as he was posting in this forum.He may very well have, but I didn't see it, and I doubt your assertion that he did say it like that.