08 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidUsing your example of Father and Son, both father and son are human beings with the father having a higher authority. God is a Spirit that makes this harder to grasp in human terms when speaking about God.
Not one scripture is flawed. It's ones comprehension, influence or sometimes just being head strong that gets one to see it in a not so correct light. Or one is just following what their religion tells them and what has always been excepted.
What is your thought on this scripture? Acts 8: 37?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. ...[text shortened]... not just say it truthfully and clearly so all of us would get a clear picture of who they are right?
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08 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidWhy didn't God make it immediately apparent and simple to understand?
I believe that it is there, yes, but not declared. It wasn’t until Christ that the plurality use of words like ”Us” becomes apparent.
Also, when the Queen says "We" are expected to view her as more than one person?
08 Jan 20
@divegeester said
Tell us where in Bible it tells us not to have blood transfusions and to let children die rather than permitting them to have one.
I'm pretty sure that child sacrifice is frowned upon in the Bible...
And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
Leviticus 18:21 AKJV
08 Jan 20
@KellyJay
Well I don't agree. Who says it's harder? Trinitairians? It says what it says Kelly, come on. Just like all the other scriptures say exactly the same thing. Jesus himself called Jehovah his father just like all the humans that followed Jesus did. Scriptures that you refer to that, mean to you they are the same like where Jesus said he and his Father are one, means nothing more then they are in full and complete agreement in what they are doing for mankind.
Again....Jehovah is the creator and the most high God. Jesus is his son who does exactly what his Father ask of him.
When Jesus said "if you see me you see the Father" means nothing more then I represent my Father and I will answer to you exactly what he stands for and would say to you. That is why one of his titles or positions he holds is that he is called a mediator between humans and Jehovah.
Again...................if this is not what God is, which is Jehovah the Father, Jesus the son and the holy spirit which has never been given a name because it is not a spirit being like the Father and son are, it is simply Jehovah's active spirit or his power that he makes things happen, then the Bible, God's word has done a poor job in letting us learn who they are. But it hasn't. It is extremely clear if one allows Jehovah to show them.
08 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidYes, that's right. I don't know how you think declaring yourself to have a "tiny mind" adds any credibility to your online banter about other followers of Jesus having "Satanic" and pagan beliefs.
Lol. No you don't know.
08 Jan 20
@FMF Oh did I say that about myself? Don't think so. Must have been someone here that thinks they own the place.
08 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidYes. You said that human beings have "tiny minds" who cannot comprehend the nature of God. So, it's odd that you would aim the most visceral condemnations possible at fellow followers of Christ when they are interpreting the Bible, as you do too, in their efforts to comprehend the nature of God.
@FMF Oh did I say that about myself? Don't think so. Must have been someone here that thinks they own the place.
08 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidJesus admits God is His Father; why should this be a surprise; everyone agrees with that. Where people are parting ways is, what does that mean!? The Father admits Jesus is Son, so this shouldn't be a surprise either, what does that mean!?
@KellyJay
Well I don't agree. Who says it's harder? Trinitairians? It says what it says Kelly, come on. Just like all the other scriptures say exactly the same thing. Jesus himself called Jehovah his father just like all the humans that followed Jesus did. Scriptures that you refer to that, mean to you they are the same like where Jesus said he and his Father are one, ...[text shortened]... ting us learn who they are. But it hasn't. It is extremely clear if one allows Jehovah to show them.
The Hebrew people knew what that meant when Jesus claimed to the Son of God, and they knew what it meant when Jesus said, "I am." The fact that Jesus even claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath should show you His divine nature, for the Ten Commandments came from God.
God is the creator, and this is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were all apart of the creation. Jesus is the Word of God, the Word was with God, and the Word was God moving on through this portion of scripture, all things were made through Him! All is an all-inclusive word; there are no exceptions; it even makes this more apparent when it says nothing was made without Him. So Jesus the Word of God was not made, was not created, as the Son of God He with the Father made all things, anything not God was made by God. Our very life all comes from Christ, He is the Light of the World, the light that the darkness has not overcome.
I'm not arguing against God doing the things you claim, neither am I arguing against Jesus being the Son of God, but the Son of God became the Son of man and saved us, it is God who saves us, not ourselves.
Psalm 68:20
Our God is a God of salvation, and to God, the Lord, belong deliverances from death.
1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
Titus 1:4
To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
John 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Isaiah 44:6-8 English Standard Version (ESV)
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
Who is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and set it before me,
since I appointed an ancient people.
Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.
Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any.”
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
09 Jan 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI imagine for the same reason you can read the whole Bible and think there are different gods in it, it isn't simple and it is difficult to understand.
Why didn't God make it immediately apparent and simple to understand?
Also, when the Queen says "We" are expected to view her as more than one person?
09 Jan 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI don't have a queen except when I'm playing chess, that question is better suited for others.
Why didn't God make it immediately apparent and simple to understand?
Also, when the Queen says "We" are expected to view her as more than one person?
09 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidIf you look closely at Jesus’ words when addressing God as His Father, He never says that God is our Father, including us along with Him. If He did, we would be no different than Himself in that way. He tells us to call God our Father, but there is a uniqueness to Jesus and the Father’s relationship along with the Holy Spirit. We, unlike Jesus, were created to now to be adopted by God into His Kingdom and Family, while Jesus was always the Son of God, the same yesterday, today, forever.
@KellyJay
Well I don't agree. Who says it's harder? Trinitairians? It says what it says Kelly, come on. Just like all the other scriptures say exactly the same thing. Jesus himself called Jehovah his father just like all the humans that followed Jesus did. Scriptures that you refer to that, mean to you they are the same like where Jesus said he and his Father are one, ...[text shortened]... ting us learn who they are. But it hasn't. It is extremely clear if one allows Jehovah to show them.
09 Jan 20
1 edit
@kellyjay saidYou have the "royal we" in American English too. It's a matter of vocabulary and syntax and not about governance. It has nothing to do with whether you are a monarchist or republican. I wonder if you have some other way of sidestepping Ghost of a Duke's point. Quibbling the "royal we" is weak.
I don't have a queen except when I'm playing chess, that question is better suited for others.
09 Jan 20
@galveston75 said"Well I don't agree. Who says it's harder? Trinitairians? It says what it says Kelly, come on. Just like all the other scriptures say exactly the same thing. Jesus himself called Jehovah his father just like all the humans that followed Jesus did. "
@KellyJay
Well I don't agree. Who says it's harder? Trinitairians? It says what it says Kelly, come on. Just like all the other scriptures say exactly the same thing. Jesus himself called Jehovah his father just like all the humans that followed Jesus did. Scriptures that you refer to that, mean to you they are the same like where Jesus said he and his Father are one, ...[text shortened]... ting us learn who they are. But it hasn't. It is extremely clear if one allows Jehovah to show them.
It is more difficult to understand because we are people in a material world, we are not spirit beings. We have a time line of birth and death, we are not eternal, so the example may carry some small meaning, it doesn't really show us the relationship between the Father and Son, that we enjoy with our sons and fathers. We may get a small insight, but the actual truth of the God is not natural thing to grasp for sinful man.
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09 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidJesus commanded the apostles:
"Well I don't agree. Who says it's harder? Trinitairians? It says what it says Kelly, come on. Just like all the other scriptures say exactly the same thing. Jesus himself called Jehovah his father just like all the humans that followed Jesus did. "
It is more difficult to understand because we are people in a material world, we are not spirit beings. We have a time line ...[text shortened]... y get a small insight, but the actual truth of the God is not natural thing to grasp for sinful man.
"go and baptise in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit."
There is not one instance in the entire NT where the disciples baptised using the trinitarian formula - which incidentally is entirely relevant.
The disciples baptised using the name of Jesus every single time without fail - thus: I baptise you in the name of Jesus Christ
and never: I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit
So what is the one single name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy ghost? it is Jesus. Jesus is the name of the Father and the holy spirit - it's right there in Acts!
Irrespective of doves, prayers, calling out, they are the same single person, the same single entity. Not three. Three is pagan and totally unscriptural. The disciples new this.
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09 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidYou don't need to have a Queen to be able to understand the following:
I don't have a queen except when I'm playing chess, that question is better suited for others.
'The royal we, or majestic plural (pluralis majestatis), is the use of a plural pronoun (or corresponding plural-inflected verb forms) to refer to a single person who is a monarch.' (Wiki)
So, if a monarch speaks of themselves in a plural, why is it surprising that God should do likewise?