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12 Jan 20
▪ “If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) Jesus acknowledged that he and his Father are not equals.
When the Bible says that the Word was God it does not mean that the Word did not become flesh.
When the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh it does not mean that God was not a man.
▪ “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) Jesus did not speak of himself as God but spoke of God as a separate Person.
When the Bible reveals that the Son was God it does not mean that the Son did not become a man.
▪ “I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.” (John 12:49) Jesus’ teachings did not come from him; they came from the Father.
When the Bible reveals that Jesus is God it does not mean that Jesus was not also a man.
12 Jan 20
@sonship saidThat is exactly what I’m referring to.
@divegeester
Galveston75 and Robbie explained to me once that Jesus is “mighty God” .
JWs teach their students that there is a difference between Jesus the Mighty God and Jehovah the Almighty God.
Ask them yourself. That is the only way they can get around Isaiah 9:6 that the child and son is Jehovah incarnated.
12 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidYou were reminded by myself that you once told me that Jesus was Mighty God.
Is Jesus Almighty God?
Common answers:
▪ “Yes, Jesus is God Almighty.”
▪ “Jesus was the manifestation of God in the flesh.”
What did Jesus say?
▪ “If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) Jesus acknowledged that he and his Father are not equals.
▪ “I am ascending to my ...[text shortened]... mighty. That is why he spoke of his Father as “my God.”—Revelation 3:2, 12; 2 Corinthians 1:3, 4. *
Correct or not?
13 Jan 20
@galveston75 said🙂 No sorry wife and I are doing something else.
@KellyJay
Ugggg! Are you watching the game?
13 Jan 20
1 edit
@sonship saidSee here is the perfect example of you not answering those scriptures. None of your answers have anything to do with the answers you posted under each one. It's actually really strange that your perception of those. It's like you really don't see what they say. I wonder why?????? Maybe 2 Cor 4:4 might apply here? I would say so...
@galveston75
▪ “If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) Jesus acknowledged that he and his Father are not equals.
When the Bible says that the Word was God it does not mean that the Word did not become flesh.
When the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh it do ...[text shortened]... [/quote]
When the Bible reveals that Jesus is God it does not mean that Jesus was not also a man.
4 "among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."
I would surely say so as most of your responses have nothing to do with the scriptures I post. Jehovah is not letting it be seen by you...
13 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidYou have 2 saviours Jesus and Jehovah
See here is the perfect example of you not answering those scriptures. None of your answers have anything to do with the answers you posted under each one. It's actually really strange that your perception of those. It's like you really don't see what they say. I wonder why?????? Maybe 2 Cor 4:4 might apply here? I would say so...
4 "among whom the god of this system o ...[text shortened]... responses have nothing to do with the scriptures I post. Jehovah is not letting it be seen by you...
Jesus is also “Mighty God”
Jehovah is “Almighty God”
Therefore you have 2 Gods as well as 2 saviours
Jesus is also an angel
Therefore you have 2 saviours and 2 Gods, 1 of which is an angel.
How anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the bible takes Jehovah’s Witnesses seriously is astonishing.
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13 Jan 20
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See here is the perfect example of you not answering those scriptures. None of your answers have anything to do with the answers you posted under each one.
My three replies briefly upheld what your cardinal rebellion against the Bible rejects - the incarnation.
You said that Jesus believed to be the Almighty is "common Sense". I disagree. Seeing that Jesus is the Almighty is a miracle of revelation. Flesh and blood cannot reveal this to a person but only the Father.
Now, some may want more detail replies to your points.
Is Jesus Almighty God?
The Bible’s answer Jesus’ opposers accused him of making himself equal to God. (John 5:18; 10:30-33) However, Jesus never claimed to be on the same level as Almighty God.
And YOU are an opposser as they were.
Because Christ is the mingling of God and man He spoke sometimes from the ground of being God and sometimes on the ground of being man, a creature of God (Gen. 1:26)
Here is an instance of Him speaking on the ground of being the God of the Old Testament:
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! : (Matt. 23:37)
Jehovah God in the Old Testament was the One who cared for Jerusalem and the Jewish people like a bird flutters over her young:
"Like flying birds so Jehovah of hosts will protect Jerusalem; He will protect and deliver it; He will pass over and rescue it." (Isaiah 31:5)
Jesus was Jehovah incarnate in the Old Testament desiring to care for Jerusalem as an adult bird her young birds. This indicates Jesus was Jehovah God Himself speaking on that ground.
"As the eagle rouses his nest hovering over his young, Spreads is wings, takes them, and bears them up upon his pinions;
So Jehovah alone led him, And and there was no strange god with him." (Deut. 32:11,12)
God as a man spoke as Jehovah God the protecting bird over Israel as going all the way back to the time of Deuteronomy.
Here, however, He spoke on the ground of Him being also a man - a creation of God (Gen. 1:26) under the authority of God.
"Do not say of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said, I am the Son of God?
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me. But if I do them, even if you do not believe Me, believe the works so that you may come to know and continue to know that the Father is in Me and I am in the Father." (John 10:36-38)
There He spoke from the ground of being the Son as a man.
Christ is the mingling of God and man.
He said: “The Father is greater than I am.”—John 14:28. Jesus’ early followers did not view him as being equal to Almighty God.
Here again He speaks on the ground of being in submission to the Father Who sent the Son.
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13 Jan 20
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And in the same chapter in verse 23 He promises to come WITH His Father as the divine "We" to make an abode within those who love Him
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
We have seen Jesus speaking from the ground of being Jehovah God of the Old Testament (Deuteronomy, Isaiah) the protecting bird over His people.
We have seen Jesus speaking from the ground of being a human being under the authority of His Father.
And lastly above we see Jesus speaking as He and His Father being dispensed as divine life - the We of the triune God into His lovers.
And His coming with His Father as the divine "We" is accomplished through the coming into them of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit -
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.
I will not leave you as orphans, I am coming to you." (John 14:16-18)
Galveston, you must still be of the world who cannot behold the Spirit of reality and have not received Him into you. You are still of the world apparently.
For example, the apostle Paul wrote that after Jesus was resurrected, God “exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position.”
Yes God exalted Jesus. The more God exalted Jesus the more you fight against that exalting of God of Jesus.
And He and the Father come to make an abode within the lovers of God incarnate - Jesus as the Divine "We". Your organization is dedicated to opposing this revelation. You're in rebellion against Jehovah.
Obviously, Paul did not believe that Jesus was Almighty God. Otherwise, how could God exalt Jesus to a superior position? —Philippians 2:9.
Paul said of the exalted Jesus under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit what the prophet Isaiah spoke of Jehovah.
"I have sworn by Myself, A word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness and will not return, That every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall swear.
It shall be said of Me, Only in Jehovah is there righteousness and strength.
To Him shall men come, and all those who are burning in anger against Him shall be ashamed.
In Jehovah all the seed of Israel shall be justified and shall glory." (See Isaiah 45:23-24)
And in Philippians ...
"Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil 2:9-11)
What did Jesus say?
▪ “If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) Jesus acknowledged that he and his Father are not equals.
And we believe what ELSE Jesus said. And we believe what ELSE the apostles sent by Jesus said.
You do not.
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. And behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:18-20)
Matthew introduced Jesus as Emmanuel meaning God with us (Matt. 1:23) . And in the end He says "Behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age."
Because He is God with us dispensed INTO His lovers as the Triune God. The ONE NAME - " ... into the name [SINGULAR] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
It is not "common sense" that Jesus is God Almighty. It is the mercy of God to enlightened the heart of fallen men to SEE that "The Word was with God, and the Word was God ... and the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us." (John 1:1, 14)
You selectively contradict the words of Christ.
And you insinuate that you know better then His apostles.
13 Jan 20
@sonship
Lol. Well buddy you have your ideas, way out there ideas, but they are yours and your welcome to have them. Obviously what ever anyone has to say about the trinity will not make you ever see differently, that's for sure. But until you ever see the origin of it not much else will help you out and that's about it.....
13 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidWhy are you determined to keep avoiding my on topic posts Galvenston75?
@sonship
Lol. Well buddy you have your ideas, way out there ideas, but they are yours and your welcome to have them. Obviously what ever anyone has to say about the trinity will not make you ever see differently, that's for sure. But until you ever see the origin of it not much else will help you out and that's about it.....
🙂
13 Jan 20
@galveston75 saidNot because you can’t refute the points therein then?
@divegeester
Cause I can.....
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13 Jan 20
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Lol. Well buddy you have your ideas, way out there ideas, but they are yours and your welcome to have them. Obviously what ever anyone has to say about the trinity will not make you ever see differently, that's for sure. But until you ever see the origin of it not much else will help you out and that's about it.....
Yea, well it will take more than a little hollow cavalier laughter to rebut the points.
Go your way, please. And don't worry about me.
I'm in good hands - God's hands.