@galveston75 saidYou have to deny the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Well you know my stand as it's clear from Genesis to Revelation that no where does it teach the trinity. So that being said I guess we are done with this subject.
But you are seriously cheating yourself in not letting Jehovah direct you to the truths in the Bible. I hope that changes for you someday...
@galveston75 saidI have told numerous times the difference between how God is singular, Holy, and in harmony. You don't see that in people who are single individuals.
Well you know my stand as it's clear from Genesis to Revelation that no where does it teach the trinity. So that being said I guess we are done with this subject.
But you are seriously cheating yourself in not letting Jehovah direct you to the truths in the Bible. I hope that changes for you someday...
One finale scripture at that's all folks...
Was Jesus lower t ...[text shortened]... God will rule completely over all.”—1 Corinthians 15:28, WTS....
Still all equal, all powerful?
I have never said that they were all equal; you are ignoring what I said.
One of the main differences between man and God is God is one and that one God, is three persons.
@KellyJay
Jesus is not once ever referred to as The God Almighty or Almighty God. He was referred to as being "God like" in his abilities and his wisdom, but NEVER called God Almighty (((( 1 ))))) time. Angels are called gods as well as Satan.
You will no doubt will show scriptures where you think it's speaking of Jesus but it isn't unless you believe the trinity then it get's all confusing and no one can explain it. In fact many scriptures where it is only speaking of Jehovah or about him you think it's about Jesus.
the Word was a god: Or “the Word was divine [or, “a godlike one”].” This statement by John describes a quality or characteristic of “the Word” (Greek, ho loʹgos; see study note on the Word in this verse), that is, Jesus Christ. The Word’s preeminent position as the firstborn Son of God through whom God created all other things is a basis for describing him as “a god; a godlike one; divine; a divine being.” Many translators favor the rendering “the Word was God,” equating him with God Almighty. However, there are good reasons for saying that John did not mean that “the Word” was the same as Almighty God. First, the preceding clause and the following clause both clearly state that “the Word” was “with God.” Also, the Greek word the·osʹ occurs three times in verses 1 and 2. In the first and third occurrences, the·osʹ is preceded by the definite article in Greek; in the second occurrence, there is no article. Many scholars agree that the absence of the definite article before the second the·osʹ is significant. When the article is used in this context, the·osʹ refers to God Almighty. On the other hand, the absence of the article in this grammatical construction makes the·osʹ qualitative in meaning and describes a characteristic of “the Word.” Therefore, a number of Bible translations in English, French, and German render the text in a way similar to the New World Translation, conveying the idea that “the Word” was “a god; divine; a divine being; of divine kind; godlike.” Supporting this view, ancient translations of John’s Gospel into the Sahidic and the Bohairic dialects of the Coptic language, probably produced in the third and fourth centuries C.E., handle the first occurrence of the·osʹ at Joh 1:1 differently from the second occurrence. These renderings highlight a quality of “the Word,” that his nature was like that of God, but they do not equate him with his Father, the almighty God. In harmony with this verse, Col 2:9 describes Christ as having “all the fullness of the divine quality.” And according to 2Pe 1:4, even Christ’s joint heirs would “become sharers in divine nature.” Additionally, in the Septuagint translation, the Greek word the·osʹ is the usual equivalent of the Hebrew words rendered “God,” ʼel and ʼelo·himʹ, which are thought to convey the basic meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” These Hebrew words are used with reference to the almighty God, other gods, and humans. (See study note on Joh 10:34.) Calling the Word “a god,” or “a mighty one,” would be in line with the prophecy at Isa 9:6, foretelling that the Messiah would be called “Mighty God” (not “Almighty God” ) and that he would be the “Eternal Father” of all those privileged to live as his subjects. The zeal of his own Father, “Jehovah of armies,” would accomplish this.—Isa 9:7. Study notes, NWT.
@kellyjay saidYes exactly, I am singular. He made us in his image and we are singular. You are not any kind of "3" persons as neither am I. We are all singular. You say that about Jehovah but then at the end of your sentence he is now suddenly 3 persons??????????? Holy moly Kelly......
I have told numerous times the difference between how God is singular, Holy, and in harmony. You don't see that in people who are single individuals.
I have never said that they were all equal; you are ignoring what I said.
One of the main differences between man and God is God is one and that one God, is three persons.
But I forget your version is different that the normal trinity.....
My last shot...Lol. You didn't comment on this scripture. Please do and take your time and let me know why you probably don't agree or why your not going to comment.....
"when all things have been placed under Christ’s rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all.”—1 Corinthians 15:28
@galveston75 saidI don't know what you call the normal Trinity, because your arguments against what I have been sharing are not exclusive to me. You wrote a book so I will take my time looking at it all.
Yes exactly, I am singular. He made us in his image and we are singular. You are not any kind of "3" persons as neither am I. We are all singular. You say that about Jehovah but then at the end of your sentence he is now suddenly 3 persons??????????? Holy moly Kelly......
But I forget your version is different that the normal trinity.....
@galveston75 saidWhat is difficult to understand here, when the Word became a man, he destroyed every rule and every authority and power. Adam lost it; as a man, Jesus is the victor, and when it is all said and done, it will once again be entirely under God where all rule and authority belongs. God does this not by merely over powering the devil and death, but through the very means, it was all lost, the Son of Man did it, to God be the glory.
My last shot...Lol. You didn't comment on this scripture. Please do and take your time and let me know why you probably don't agree or why your not going to comment.....
"when all things have been placed under Christ’s rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all.”—1 Corinthians 15:28
If you study the scripture, God does this a lot, Jesus wins the victory by taking all evil could throw at Him, laying down His life and getting the victory by being killed unjustly.
1 Corinthians 15
But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
@kellyjay saidThanks for quoting the scripture as that tells me you did read it. But no it is not difficult to me at all. It says what it says in this scripture.
What is difficult to understand here, when the Word became a man, he destroyed every rule and every authority and power. Adam lost it; as a man, Jesus is the victor, and when it is all said and done, it will once again be entirely under God where all rule and authority belongs. God does this not by merely over powering the devil and death, but through the very means, it was ...[text shortened]... ill also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
Now as were are speaking of the trinity and I asked you to look this up, it obviously has to have something to do with that.
From every angle that one can look this scripture over and try to understand what exactly is happening, which you wrote that down in the correct order but I don't know if you see the points in this about who is over who, who has the total and last words on events, actions, in charge, etc.
I'm still fuzzy on your explanations but I'm going to respond to this scripture as I know what the average trinity belief says.
But going over the main details that explains Jesus's station, is says Jesus died. The bible clearly says that God can never die. So as a human, that's all that Jesus was, as he did die as all humans do.
Jumping down where it says after Jesus reigned he delivers the Kingdom of who? It's his Fathers, not his anymore as he hands the keys over to Jehovah. The scripture here says it's always been Jehovah's but he let his son Jesus rule it for a time. Once all had been accomplished that his Father wanted, Jesus turned it back over and what became of Jesus? The bible doesn't answer that but this scripture says Jesus will go back to being under subjection to him.
Now talking about the trinity and the widespread opinion on the trinity is they are all equal, all powerful, all know...Etc.
So how does this scripture fit that explanation? Well it doesn't at all.
Jesus was given authority to do this for his Father. That would mean he didn't have that authority before. So he did not have equal anything before Jehovah gave him that equal ability to rule Jehovah's Kingdom for a set amount of years. Right?
Then after that work is done by Jesus he hands it back over and Jesus once again submits that authority, all of it back to Jehovah.
Two points. The bible does not say at all what Jesus will be doing forever after he hands it back to him. The second where is the holy spirit and why is he not apparently involved?
It cannot be more obvious or simple to understand what this scripture is saying. Nothing is hidden here. Jesus is not his father. He was only given that authority for a specific time period and then he hands it back. It is no longer his.
Nothing here at all leans to the slightest degree that this is a trinity relationship and in fact clearly says Jesus will be back in a lower position just as he was before this event happened.
So are they equal????????? Are they the same person???????
Good night......
@galveston75 saidI'm not sure what you mean by the average Trinity belief since what I have been telling you is the only one I have had. The points you keep stressing to me have nothing to do with the things I've been saying, such as they are equal, I've been saying they are not equal; nonetheless they are all God singular and in harmony. I think I have been consistent on that point since I first started responding to all the treads that have been dealing with this topic. The Word of God became a man, and men can die, and Jesus did, that doesn't stop Him from being who He was, is, and will be.
Thanks for quoting the scripture as that tells me you did read it. But no it is not difficult to me at all. It says what it says in this scripture.
Now as were are speaking of the trinity and I asked you to look this up, it obviously has to have something to do with that.
From every angle that one can look this scripture over and try to understand what exactly is happe ...[text shortened]... this event happened.
So are they equal????????? Are they the same person???????
Good night......
@kellyjay saidSo not 3 distinct persons then?
I believe that God is 1; I don't dispute that.
@KellyJay
Howdy y'all. Well as I said yesterday and a couple times before your trinity is somewhat different then the normal explanation of how it works. So you apparently have your own opinion which is fine. But all you have to do is look the trinity up and see what the accepted belief is on it. Because when I first mentioned to you about how they are all equal on all things, they say, you said you had never heard that.
But in a round about way it still pretty much ends up the same.
Here is one of the better links on the modern facts on the trinity and how it came about a few hundred years after Jesus died.
I hope that the few here that do embrace this belief will read this. One would not want to do anything to hinder ones relationship with God. He is a jealous God as the bible describes him. He does not accept untruthful worship....
ttps://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/the-surprising-origins-of-the-trinity-doctrine
@galveston75 saidFacts?
Here is one of the better links on the modern facts on the trinity and how it came about a few hundred years after Jesus died.
I hope that the few here that do embrace this belief will read this. One would not want to do anything to hinder ones relationship with God. He is a jealous God as the bible describes him. He does not accept untruthful worship....
ttps://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/the-surprising-origins-of-the-trinity-doctrine
@KellyJay
Believe it or not, Yes sir. I would think most people would be willing to at least take a look. What if your eternal life hinged on getting this right? If you are wrong maybe just some tweaking on your understanding is all it would take? If you are right, your right. But remember the scripture that says "cramped and narrow is the road to life and FEW are the ones finding it"?
Just a thought but if you believe in a doctrine that more then half the world ( that Is not a FEW ) believes but yet credible historians say it is not a truth in the Bible, that would be something I'd check into seriously. Just saying!!!!!
@galveston75 saidI don't care what some 'credible historians' say, some agree and others don't; this is no different than when we first started talking. It isn't a matter of other authorities; it is the Word of God and are we rightly dividing it? I care about what is in the Word, and I can read that for myself! If someone else has to tell me what to think and why that doesn't lend itself to anything other than idolatry.
@KellyJay
Believe it or not, Yes sir. I would think most people would be willing to at least take a look. What if your eternal life hinged on getting this right? If you are wrong maybe just some tweaking on your understanding is all it would take? If you are right, your right. But remember the scripture that says "cramped and narrow is the road to life and FEW are the ...[text shortened]... y it is not a truth in the Bible, that would be something I'd check into seriously. Just saying!!!!!
The Word of God, God's Word, through whom He made everything, and nothing was made was made without Him. God spoke things into being, the visible from the invisible, all things not God were made, so in the beginning, "God said,…." that is Jesus Christ at work. If Jesus was a created being, then something had to have been made without Him, but because He is God, God created and there was no need to create Jesus, He was, is, and will be the Word of God.
John 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.