@galveston75 saidI believe we see the origin of the Trinity in Genesis, the Spirit of God was there over the waters, and we read how God started creating, "God said." The Word of God who later became a man.
@sonship
Lol. Well buddy you have your ideas, way out there ideas, but they are yours and your welcome to have them. Obviously what ever anyone has to say about the trinity will not make you ever see differently, that's for sure. But until you ever see the origin of it not much else will help you out and that's about it.....
@kellyjay saidThe “trinity” isn’t in Genesis, in fact it’s not in the bible at all.
I believe we see the origin of the Trinity in Genesis, the Spirit of God was there over the waters, and we read how God started creating, "God said." The Word of God who later became a man.
It’s man-made.
Jesus commanded the apostles:
"go and baptise in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit."
There is not one instance in the entire NT where the disciples baptised using the trinitarian formula - which incidentally is entirely relevant.
The disciples baptised using the name of Jesus every single time without fail - thus: I baptise you in the name of Jesus Christ
and never: I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit
So what is the one single name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy ghost? it is Jesus. Jesus is the name of the Father and the holy spirit - it's right there in Acts!
Irrespective of doves, prayers, calling out, they are the same single person, the same single entity. Not three. Three is pagan and totally unscriptural. The disciples new this.
@kellyjay saidWell not really as it's really not mentioning or emplying anything about a trinity God or being. But it is mentioning the "spirit of God" which is no more then God's power or his force doing as he wants the creation to go.
I believe we see the origin of the Trinity in Genesis, the Spirit of God was there over the waters, and we read how God started creating, "God said." The Word of God who later became a man.
Remember that Jehovah is not flesh. He has no hands or arms to use when creating. So he does things quite different then a fleshy human does. All he has to do is think of what he wants done and his tremendous power affects lets say the place he wants it done and it just happens. A silly example of this that we can relate to is the old TV show "Bewitched" Remember all she did to have something happen was twitch her nose and it happened. I'm not saying that's exactly how Jehovah does it but maybe you'll get my meaning.
And yes the "word of God" is Jesus. He is later called the "Word" because he speaks for his father Jehovah. He is the go between in our communications with his father and then would be the one to tell us what Jehovah wants of us.
@galveston75 saidAs I told you the Trinity is a doctrine that comes out of the Scripture. The Scripture is the revelation from God where He has revealed Himself to us. The Word of God is Christ; you think that there is a disconnect between God and His Word or Spirit? As I read the Scripture, these are One. I don't know if you agree with multiple gods calling Jesus a different God or not?
Well not really as it's really not mentioning or emplying anything about a trinity God or being. But it is mentioning the "spirit of God" which is no more then God's power or his force doing as he wants the creation to go.
Remember that Jehovah is not flesh. He has no hands or arms to use when creating. So he does things quite different then a fleshy human does. All he ...[text shortened]... in our communications with his father and then would be the one to tell us what Jehovah wants of us.
@kellyjay saidAs I told you, the trinity is man-made.
As I told you the Trinity is a doctrine that comes out of the Scripture.
So would it be fair if we used the title "Godhead" when speaking of these 3 parts of the trinity? If it is let's try a little experiment on a few scriptures where there it mentions either (Jehovah) (Jesus) (God) (holy spirit ) or (Lord) etc, all in that same scripture if possible.
Since they are all basically the same spirit being according to the trinity, then one should be able to change the names or titles of them, as said normally in the bible as mentioned above, to now just saying Godhead, or Bruce or Mike or something singular and it should still have the same meaning. Right? If they are truly the same then just one title or name should have been all thru the Bible especially to make things so much easier for humans to learn about this Godhead and to be able to explain it to others in the teaching work Jesus told us to do.
That would also mean all the writers of the Bible would have had the same understanding and that is "Godhead" would simply mean all three. But since not one common word was used like "Godhead" but all the other titles or names were used as they wrote down each sentence, it would seem the writers would have started to question what all the names and tiles were being used for if there were indeed a Godhead and not separate beings as the Bible clearly shows. Make sense?
Lets try James 1:1: "James, a servant of "Godhead" and of the "Godhead"
To: Jewish Christians scattered everywhere. Greetings!
Mark 15:34 Living Bible (TLB)
34 Then Godhead called out with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”[a] (“My Godhead, my Godhead, why have you deserted me? )
Mark 16:19 Living Bible (TLB)
19 When the Godhead had finished talking with them, he was taken up into heaven and sat down at Godhead's right hand.
Acts 4:10 Living Bible (TLB)
10 let me clearly state to you and to all the people of Israel that it was done in the name and power of Godhead from Nazareth, the Messiah, the man you crucified—but Godhead raised back to life again. It is by his authority that this man stands here healed!
Romans 2:16 Living Bible (TLB)
16 The day will surely come when at Godhead’s command Godhead will judge the secret lives of everyone, their inmost thoughts and motives; this is all part of Godhead’s great plan, which I proclaim.
So get the point? If the trinity is true and factual, the Bible was written all wrong. Whenever the three in one God is being spoken of or named or speaking to us, he or it, should have only 1 name and title. Get it?
@galveston75 saidYou have 2 Gods
So would it be fair if we used the title "Godhead" when speaking of these 3 parts of the trinity? If it is let's try a little experiment on a few scriptures where there it mentions either (Jehovah) (Jesus) (God) (holy spirit ) or (Lord) etc, all in that same scripture if possible.
Since they are all basically the same spirit being according to the trinity, then one sho ...[text shortened]... is being spoken of or named or speaking to us, he or it, should have only 1 name and title. Get it?
You have 2 Saviours
1 of your Gods is also an angel
You have zero credibility in a discussion on the godhead.
@galveston75 saidLet's try to stick to what it is saying.
So would it be fair if we used the title "Godhead" when speaking of these 3 parts of the trinity? If it is let's try a little experiment on a few scriptures where there it mentions either (Jehovah) (Jesus) (God) (holy spirit ) or (Lord) etc, all in that same scripture if possible.
Since they are all basically the same spirit being according to the trinity, then one sho ...[text shortened]... is being spoken of or named or speaking to us, he or it, should have only 1 name and title. Get it?
@KellyJay
Well you pretty much answered in the way that I expected. I've noticed that when I bring up some points or ideas or even some scriptures that absolutely kill the trinity, you tend to not answer them directly but give an answer like this. You're probably a good salesman in that you don't really answer what you think is bad and redirect to what you feel safe with. You have totally ignored some of my questions since we've been on this subject. Oh well...
@galveston75 saidPlease give the Scriptures again because I don't recall any that did that.
@KellyJay
Well you pretty much answered in the way that I expected. I've noticed that when I bring up some points or ideas or even some scriptures that absolutely kill the trinity, you tend to not answer them directly but give an answer like this. You're probably a good salesman in that you don't really answer what you think is bad and redirect to what you feel safe with. You have totally ignored some of my questions since we've been on this subject. Oh well...
@galveston75 saidGive me your top 2 please Scriptural reasons to reject the Trinity. That should be an excellent place to start.
@KellyJay
Well you pretty much answered in the way that I expected. I've noticed that when I bring up some points or ideas or even some scriptures that absolutely kill the trinity, you tend to not answer them directly but give an answer like this. You're probably a good salesman in that you don't really answer what you think is bad and redirect to what you feel safe with. You have totally ignored some of my questions since we've been on this subject. Oh well...
@kellyjay saidHere’s one ...
Give me your top 2 please Scriptural reasons to reject the Trinity. That should be an excellent place to start.
Jesus commanded the apostles:
"go and baptise in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit."
There is not one instance in the entire NT where the disciples baptised using the trinitarian formula - which incidentally is entirely relevant.
The disciples baptised using the name of Jesus every single time without fail - thus: I baptise you in the name of Jesus Christ
and never: I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit
So what is the one single name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy ghost? it is Jesus. Jesus is the name of the Father and the holy spirit - it's right there in Acts!
Irrespective of doves, prayers, calling out, they are the same single person, the same single entity. Not three. Three is pagan and totally unscriptural. The disciples new this.
@KellyJay
Oh Kelly there have been a lot. Some I've asked 3 or 4 times on some but nothing answered back. Maybe you can look back too and see what you find. I'm getting off work and going to go out for dinner so it may be tomorrow for me to find them for you.
But there is going to be a catch. When you dispute them I want you to come back with scriptures to me that show what I show you is wrong. I've posted many, many scriptures and there have been many times you just tell me I'm not reading them correctly but then you show me nothing to show me I'm wrong.
For instance the same old simple and true verse where God himself says he is one God. No one including you has shown a scripture that says he is NOT ONE God but three. Deal?
@galveston75 saidI have not seen one that disputes it. I believe that that there is only only one God, so why would I argue that?
@KellyJay
Oh Kelly there have been a lot. Some I've asked 3 or 4 times on some but nothing answered back. Maybe you can look back too and see what you find. I'm getting off work and going to go out for dinner so it may be tomorrow for me to find them for you.
But there is going to be a catch. When you dispute them I want you to come back with scriptures to me that s ...[text shortened]... is one God. No one including you has shown a scripture that says he is NOT ONE God but three. Deal?