Homosexuals in heaven?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the concept is neither vague nor a deflection, again, i ask you as i have asked FMF who
seems reticent to provide anything resembling a principle, what religious principles
have you weighed in the balance so that your powers of discernment has led you to the
conclusion that its a religious norm or otherwise.

Originally posted by FMF
I have weighed the dictionary quote that you provided and that will suffice I think, for our purposes here. It is rather revealing that, when that didn't work [I don't think you had read it carefully enough], that you now want to discard it and talk "independently of the dictionary definition".

Originally posted by FMF
Let's put the vagueness of "a religious norm" aside for a moment. Is marriage "a religious norm"? Yes. Is sex within a marriage "a religious norm"? Yes. Does your religion condemn marital sexual acts? Not as far as I can see from your attempts to claim it be so so, so far.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the concept is neither vague nor a deflection, again, i ask you as i have asked FMF who
seems reticent to provide anything resembling a principle, what religious principles
have you weighed in the balance so that your powers of discernment has led you to the
conclusion that its a religious norm or otherwise.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i assumed before this debat that it was normal for a person of religion to preform oral sex on their partner. im becoming aware from what you and rj have said that it is not normal behavior (although i would bet that most christian couples do it).

you are the religious dude, you have a better idea if its the norm than me, i dont know if its somethin ...[text shortened]... e says do you have any feelings on the subject matter, can you understand why oral sex is a sin?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no you have provided nothing, not an iota of a principle, but seem content to expect us
to accept your opinions as validation in themselves, I am sorry, its simply not good
enough, you have failed to state why oral sex is a religious norm knowing that if you
do, you may expose yourself to the possibility that it is not a religious norm and you ...[text shortened]... faced with the inescapable fact that it is therefore immoral, a thoroughly
cowardly approach.

Originally posted by FMF
Why don't you make a list of marital sexual acts and then place a note of "a religious norm" next to each one, so that we can see where you are coming from. I believe that marital sex is condoned and encouraged by your religion but you seem to be suggesting that oral sex has been condemned, specifically. Give us a list of what marital sex acts get the "a religious norm" notation and which don't.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Is marriage "a religious norm"? Yes. Is sex within a marriage "a religious norm"? Yes. Is oral sex within marraige a religious norm, ???

Robbie, why don't you make a list of marital sexual acts and then place a note saying either "this is a religious norm" or "this is not a religious norm" next to each one, so that we can see which sex acts you approve of and which sex acts you don't approve of. If there are marital sex acts that you do not approve of, and you have written "this is not a religious norm" next to it, you can then tell us where or how your religion explicitly declares it immoral.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why dont you, here is your chance,

Is marriage "a religious norm"? Yes. Is sex within a marriage "a religious norm"? Yes.
Is oral sex within marraige a religious norm, ???

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i assumed before this debat that it was normal for a person of religion to preform oral
sex on their partner

exactly its an assumption. In order to ascertain Gods standpoint one must weigh
principles in the balance.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what is a 'religious norm' seems like you are using a vague concept to deflect.

Originally posted by FMF
robbie has provided a quote that does not back what he was claiming. Here is a sentence from that quote:

[b]"“The word-group [involving porneia] can describe various extra-marital sexual modes of behaviour insofar as they deviate from accepted social and religious norms (e.g. homosexuality, promiscuity, paedophilia [sexual abuse of children], and especially ...[text shortened]... s, and trying to make it ever so slightly personal by calling me "cowardly" as I do so.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I provided a definition of the Biblical term porneia which clearly stated that oral sex is immoral, from a religious standpoint....

Originally posted by FMF
Your quote from the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology "clearly stated" no such thing. Do you still contend that it does?