Lazy readers who cannot take in a substantial post to explain a Bible teaching - please go away !
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I draw your attention to the Apostles Paul's words about "things like these".
As long as a Christian is dominated by "things like these" he or she is in danger of being excluded from participation in the kingdom of God. We must be sanctified from these matters into living Christ.
The phrase "things like these" means that Paul's list is ONLY representative. Other things could also be mentioned. All of them we are able to overcome through the indwelling empowerment of Christ's grace.
Now look at the passage:
"And the works of the flesh are manifest, which are such things as fornication, uncleaness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, divisions, sects, envyings, bouts of drunkeness, carousings, and things like these, of which I tell you beforehand, even as I have said before,
that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. But they who are of Chrtist Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and its lusts. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit." (Gal. 5:19-25)
The phrases "such things" and "things like these" prove the list is only representative. You may be redeemed. You may have the gift of eternal life. But this is not an end in itself. You are excluded from particiation in the kingdom of God until transformation and sanctification have conformed you to the image of Christ.
Now, homosexual lifestyle was not explicitly mentioned in the Galatians 5:19-25. However, a parallel passage mentions homosexual lifestyle as a practice. So I conclude that it also must be one of the things like these.
The passage is clearly a parallel or sister passage teaching virtually the same matters -
First Corinthians 6:9-11 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray; neither fornicators nor idolators nor adulterers nor effeminate nor homsexuals nor thieves not the covetous, not drunkards, not revilers, not the rapacious will inherit the kingdom of God.
And these things were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
Practical participation in the kingdom of God, especailly immediately following the second coming of Christ, will not tolerate that one has not yet been transformed out of these practices as regular lifestyles. You must be not only forgiven but sanctified subjectively in transformation to express righteousness.
Drunkards be warned.
Revilers be warned.
idolaters, adulterers, thieves be warned. We all need practical and subjective transformation by the Spirit of Christ.
I'm sorry. Homosexuals also be warned. That is not warned necessarily ABOVE the others. But warned ALONG WITH the others. That is the other - thieves, drunkards, the rapacious, the others - and "things like these".
The Holy Spirit will enlighten the believer what other "things like these" a repentant sinner needs to be delivered from.
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Originally posted by jaywilli can understand why god warns against taking part in the activities listed as the majority cause health or social problems, i dont understand why homosexuality would be included. are christians left to their own devices to try and work out why homosexuality is deemed a problem or is their any direction from the good book.
Lazy readers who cannot take in a substantial post to explain a Bible teaching - please go away !
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I draw your attention to the Apostles Paul's words about [b]"things like these".
As long as a Christian is dominated by "things like these" he or she is in danger of being excluded from participati ...[text shortened]... "things like these" a repentant sinner needs to be delivered from.[/b]
is thinking sinful things deemed a sin? i.e. if a person really wants to be a murderer but controls that feeling out of fear of prison or being punished by god. would that person in gods eyes be as bad as the person that actually does murder?
Originally posted by RJHindsYour opinion can be your opinion and nobody will say anything against that but what I don't like is people trying to communicate their bedroom opinions to other people, it is an attempt to control whether you see it that way or not.
I am not trying to control your life. I am stating my opinion on the subject. I know there are many people that do not believe as I do. I just think my belief is more like what God wants in the marriage relationship of a man and woman.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!
Originally posted by sonhouseI would not object to that either, if those who had a different opinion would keep their mouth shut too.
Your opinion can be your opinion and nobody will say anything against that but what I don't like is people trying to communicate their bedroom opinions to other people, it is an attempt to control whether you see it that way or not.
Originally posted by stellspalfie
i can understand why god warns against taking part in the activities listed as the majority cause health or social problems, i dont understand why homosexuality would be included. are christians left to their own devices to try and work out why homosexuality is deemed a problem or is their any direction from the good book.
is thinking sinful things ...[text shortened]... nished by god. would that person in gods eyes be as bad as the person that actually does murder?
I can understand why god warns against taking part in the activities listed as the majority cause health or social problems, i dont understand why homosexuality would be included. are christians left to their own devices to try and work out why homosexuality is deemed a problem or is their any direction from the good book.
Absolutely we are not left to our own resources. Otherwise Christ would not have come to be our Savior.
Let me put it to you from my own experience. Look, I have certain tendencies and inclinations in my fallen flesh. What specifically they are are no one's business. Suffice it to say that I have weaknesses.
I will probably go to the grave with these weaknesses. I expect that they will be with me until Christ either returns to glorify my body or I depart and await the resurrection.
Now these weaknesses cause me to have to go to Christ. They enfluence me and drive me to come to Jesus for His empowering. They have been in one sense friends. For if I did not have these weaknesses I might not be as desperate to avail myself of Christ's all sufficient grace.
So my weaknesses have been my friends to give me the incentive to avail myself of the power of Jesus Christ's Holy Spirit. And I can do all things in Him who impowers me.
Emphatically, I am not left to my own resources. God knew what we were before we were born. He made abundant provision for oor living even before we were born.
Aside from the empowering of Christ, I can also seek professional help with some things. We are under grace and not under the Law of Moses.
And His grace is sufficient. He loves us with an love to the uttermost. And He knows us far deeper than we can realize.
I must go now. This is jaywill using a relative's PC.
Originally posted by GSWILLTestify, brother!
Absolutely we are not left to our own resources. Otherwise Christ would not have come to be our Savior.
Let me put it to you from my own experience. Look, I have certain tendencies and inclinations in my fallen flesh. What specifically they are are no one's business. Suffice it to say that I have weaknesses.
I will probably go to the grave with t ...[text shortened]... s far deeper than we can realize.
I must go now. This is jaywill using a relative's PC.
😀
Originally posted by GSWILLYou say, "...I can also seek professional help with some things. We are under grace and not under the Law of Moses. "I can understand why god warns against taking part in the activities listed as the majority cause health or social problems, i dont understand why homosexuality would be included. are christians left to their own devices to try and work out why homosexuality is deemed a problem or is their any direction from the good book.
Absolutely we ...[text shortened]... s far deeper than we can realize.
I must go now. This is jaywill using a relative's PC.
Without asking you for details of those things, I ask this: Does "We...are not under the Law of Moses" in this context mean that the Law of Moses would prohibit your seeking professional help, but you are saying the Law of Noses is not in force?
I am not being argumentative here, I just wonder what you mean.
Originally posted by JS357I smell a rat🙂
You say, "...I can also seek professional help with some things. We are under grace and not under the Law of Moses. "
Without asking you for details of those things, I ask this: Does "We...are not under the Law of Moses" in this context mean that the Law of Moses would prohibit your seeking professional help, but you are saying the Law of Noses is not in force?
I am not being argumentative here, I just wonder what you mean.
Originally posted by JS357
You say, "...I can also seek professional help with some things. We are under grace and not under the Law of Moses. "
Without asking you for details of those things, I ask this: Does "We...are not under the Law of Moses" in this context mean that the Law of Moses would prohibit your seeking professional help, but you are saying the Law of Noses is not in force?
I am not being argumentative here, I just wonder what you mean.
You say, "...I can also seek professional help with some things. We are under grace and not under the Law of Moses. "
Actually two thoughts were in that paragraph, which I should have made more distinct from each other.
First - The comment about professional help is like this. If you, say, have a past with alcholism when you receive Christ, He may free you dramatically from that condition.
He may also just support you and lead you to seek professional medical assistance as well. Those who have been dramatically delivered from some besetting sin by Christ must realize that God may not deal with everyone exactly the same. Jesus may have reasons that you SUBMIT yourself to professional medical help as well. It can be humbling. It may be to teach you endurance. It may be to testify. God has His reasons.
So a Christian who has been dramatically delivered should not insist that all others who follow the Lord will have the identical kind of experience.
This briefly covers the comment about being fully consecrated to Christ, yet ALSO being helped by professional medical help.
Now the second matter is being under grace and not being under the law. Books have been written about this. Volumes could be written on this. Whole epistles in the New Testament are written on being under grace and not under the law.
Briefly, think about power steering in an automobile. When the driver applies a little cooperation the power of the engine coordinates with her and a substantial extra measure of power and ability act in harmony with her steering action.
When the life giving Spirit Jesus Christ comes into a man or woman it is something like power brakes or power steering in a car. We live and move by inwardly being one with Him. We abide in Him. We learn to get into the realm of His availability. Then His actions are grafted into our actions. Our actions are mingled with His actions. And there is an empowering. There is an enabling.
This empowering comes not by keeping the regulations of the law but by abiding in the sphere and realm of an unusual and indwelling supernatural presence. "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Paul is a pioneer in this. And we can learn from him - "I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of Go; for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ has died for nothing." (Gal. 2:20,21)
By faith we appropriate that Christ as terminated our sinful self, on His cross.
By faith we appropriate that we have been raised with Christ.
By faith we take Christ into our heart and into progressively more and more corners of our heart.
By faith we turn over our soul to His indwelling.
By faith we allow Him to make His home in our hearts.
This is not sentimental. This is actual because today the resurrected Jesus Christ has become the life giving Holy Spirit.
"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Jesus Christ, in resurrection, BECAME ... a Spirit that imparts His own high, holy, righteous, God pleasing, Father satisfying, fully God centered and God consecrated pure human / divine LIFE into us by faith.
Life Giving actually means CHRIST GIVING. The last Adam became a CHRIST GIVING Spirit to supply man with Jesus Christ within. This is the Gospel. This is the good news - Jesus Himself is available to us today to live His life again within us. Only a God / Man could possibly do this.
Without asking you for details of those things, I ask this: Does "We...are not under the Law of Moses" in this context mean that the Law of Moses would prohibit your seeking professional help, but you are saying the Law of Noses is not in force?
I tried to explain that I really mean TWO distinct matters. Unfotunately, I didn't write them well. Two different thoughts are expressed there.
Even with Christ within, God may allow you to seek assistance from unbelieving medical professionals on some matter. Or they may be Christrians. The point is that God is sovereign and deems what He thinks best with each of His children.
You see, someone's tendency may be to BOAST once they have come to Jesus. Jesus may deal with his PRIDE by allowing that new believer to have to continue to seek professional medical help. He becomes tempered. He becomes balanced. He trusts in God. But he becomes humbled in his spiritual growth.
All these matters can be gained by carefully reading the bible and by the personal testimonies of Christians down through the many years.
Originally posted by jaywill"I tried to explain that I really mean TWO distinct matters."You say, "...I can also seek professional help with some things. We are under grace and not under the Law of Moses. "
Actually two thoughts were in that paragraph, which I should have made more distinct from each other.
First - The comment about professional help is like this. If you, say, have a past with alcholism when you receive ...[text shortened]... the bible and by the personal testimonies of Christians down through the many years.
OK. At least it presented a chance for some further dialogue on both ideas.
The Law of Moses (Mosaic Law) does not apply to Christians (Gentiles). It never has. It only applies to Jews. Christians are under Grace, which is a whole 'nother dynamic. (I'm just attempting the tl;dr version of what jaywill said. I know for some of you, your eyes kinda glaze over when approaching a jaywill post.)
Originally posted by Suzianne'Glaze over' alright. After a thread of 17 pages in 3 days thats been so entertaining and revealing in parts you will excuse that when I get to a jaywill post that I just skim over it.
The Law of Moses (Mosaic Law) does not apply to Christians (Gentiles). It never has. It only applies to Jews. Christians are under Grace, which is a whole 'nother dynamic. (I'm just attempting the [b]tl;dr version of what jaywill said. I know for some of you, your eyes kinda glaze over when approaching a jaywill post.)[/b]
Dont people get a feeling for this stuff? You seem to
Originally posted by jaywillSo the words "things like these" mean - as far as you are concerned - that you can add what you want to the list of things you personally want to condemn?
Lazy readers who cannot take in a substantial post to explain a Bible teaching - please go away !
========================================
I draw your attention to the Apostles Paul's words about [b]"things like these".
As long as a Christian is dominated by "things like these" he or she is in danger of being excluded from participati "things like these" a repentant sinner needs to be delivered from.[/b]