Homosexuals in heaven?

Originally posted by jaywill
More responsible Christian counselors of gay people seeking spiritual help.

[b] Exodus International:

" Exodus International doesn’t exist to make gay people straight, promote a formula for “success,” to make money or even to pass legislation. We exist to help others live a life that reflects the Christian faith. We’ve found that the opp ...[text shortened]... "

http://exodusinternational.org/2009/10/big-foot-nessie-exodus-international-2/[/b]

it's still watered down homophobia and although a big improvement on right wing religious anti-homosexual views, still has a long way to go before it reaches the bench mark of being acceptable. a homophobic god is a bad god and i fail to see what the difference is between a god saying being gay is wrong and a nazi saying being a jew is wrong.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i kinda zoned out for a moment here, ever since i mentioned blowjobs for a moment and you guys went for several hundred posts so i might not be up to speed with the discussion.

did i understand correctly and you are picking on robbie for wanting to castrate pedophiles? i must side with robbie on this one. of course, not the equally psychotic rusty saw me ...[text shortened]... t in case of rape).


so what exactly do you find "cruel" in medicating these "beings"

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Sex-offenders-given-voluntary-chemical-castration/story-15516018-detail/story.html

I think the problem with making it compulsory or permanent is the issue of rape being only partly about sexual urges and is as much about anger. Making them more angry might not be the best solution.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Sex-offenders-given-voluntary-chemical-castration/story-15516018-detail/story.html

I think the problem with making it compulsory or permanent is the issue of rape being only partly about sexual urges and is as much about anger. Making them more angry might not be the best solution.

i don't think pedophiles fit into that characterization.

anywhoo, i never said it would be a choice between prison and chemical castration, prison is not negotiable. so i would guess being locked away for several years would make them mad anyway.


compulsory
it should be, i don't think it would be much use if after 10 years of prison, the convicted rapist gets out wanting some more. it should be a part of the parole deal. the thing i "like" the most is some pathological liberals (sometimes it can be like an illness) deem it to be against the rapist's right to procreate. to which i say: "fuk him/her" (the rapist, not the liberals). he gave up that right when he raped someone. humanity doesn't need his genes. if it is that much of an issue, it can be resolved by a donation to a sperm bank and we will see who wants "tall, dark, handsome rapist" man juice.

permanent
right now, most methods of chemical castration seem to be reversible as long as the treatment is discontinued. so if the convict demonstrates he has changed (i don't believe in the rehabilitation of serial rapists), i guess he can have his penis back in working condition.

Originally posted by FMF
The issue was the vicious violent urge to use a rusty saw to attack someone. JS357 didn't use the word "cruel" in the post you were responding to. Nor was he discussing medical castration.

i don't really think even robbie dreams of sawing off schlongs with a rusty or brand new saw.


ok, matter settled, i misunderstood the point, having arrived late at the party and not wanting to browse through countless robbie posts to see if he wants pedophiles castrated or not and if you agree with him partly or fully or not.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
it's still watered down homophobia and although a big improvement on right wing religious anti-homosexual views, still has a long way to go before it reaches the bench mark of being acceptable. a homophobic god is a bad god and i fail to see what the difference is between a god saying being gay is wrong and a nazi saying being a jew is wrong.

it's still watered down homophobia and although a big improvement on right wing religious anti-homosexual views, still has a long way to go before it reaches the bench mark of being acceptable.

And I could express my opinion as well and say you display "evangelphobia".

If you want to define a phobia for everyone, you can be saddled with one as well - "evangelphobia" - an irrational and paranoid dread of Christians how teach the Gospel is the good news. Christ saves our humanity from the ruin of sin.

Besides, if a man wants to love another man, or a woman wants to love another woman, they definitely should learn the divine Agape purest love of Jesus Christ for others. There is no question about that.

Originally posted by jaywill

it's still watered down homophobia and although a big improvement on right wing religious anti-homosexual views, still has a long way to go before it reaches the bench mark of being acceptable.

And I could express my opinion as well and say you display "evangelphobia".

If you want to define a phobia for everyone, you can be saddled w ...[text shortened]... ivine [b]Agape purest love of Jesus Christ for others. There is no question about that.[/b]

the text you quoted said 'the opposite to homosexuality is holiness' which is pretty damn homophobic in my opinion. so dont act like im throwing around the word willy-nilly.

its true, i do have an irrational paranoia about christians.....they are everywhere watching me!!! with their evil knit wear, sensible shoes, jumble-sale body odor and slightly too short slacks. creeping out of their second hand clothes shops and following me down the street, shaking their collection boxes in a menacing fashion. i cant cross the road without them trying to mow me down in their old-grey-minvans!!!........i see christians.......................................................................................................................................everywhere.

Originally posted by jaywill
And I could express my opinion as well and say you display "evangelphobia".

If you want to define a phobia for everyone, you can be saddled with one as well - "evangelphobia" - an irrational and paranoid dread of Christians how teach the Gospel is the good news.

This is an interesting point. However, is it really "irrational and paranoid" to oppose the way you seek to rationalize the deliberate discrimination against and condemnation of certain minority based on your superstition? You may not personally agree with me characterizing you as supporting discrimination and condemnation - and fair enough, if so - but as you know, evangelistic Christians (among others) do exactly that, in their droves.

Opposing proponents of intolerance is hardly "irrational". Fighting discrimination is hardly the result of "paranoid dread". So the terminology "evangelphobia" does not pass muster, I reckon, whereas your superstitious, 'metaphysical' objection to someone else's sexual orientation, based on something you read in a book you like, does appear to lack any logic that cannot easily be shown to be circular.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i kinda zoned out for a moment here, ever since i mentioned blowjobs for a moment and you guys went for several hundred posts so i might not be up to speed with the discussion.

did i understand correctly and you are picking on robbie for wanting to castrate pedophiles? i must side with robbie on this one. of course, not the equally psychotic rusty saw me ...[text shortened]... t in case of rape).


so what exactly do you find "cruel" in medicating these "beings"

I was providing what I found. My comment was to the effect that robbie (like most of us, I'd say) has a urge to use violence on rapists, but in robbie's case he leaves it to his God to handle, who he says has more patience. I said if his faith keeps him from acting out his rage, let it be. I don't think I'm picking on anyone but I will take a look at how I say things.

Originally posted by FMF
This is an interesting point. However, is it really "irrational and paranoid" to oppose the way you seek to rationalize the deliberate discrimination against and condemnation of certain minority based on your superstition? You may not personally agree with me characterizing you as supporting discrimination and condemnation - and fair enough, if so - but as you k k you like, does appear to lack any logic that cannot easily be shown to be circular.

This is an interesting point. However, is it really "irrational and paranoid" to oppose the way you seek to rationalize the deliberate discrimination against and condemnation of certain minority based on your superstition?

Of course don't expect me to accept your characterization of the New Testament as "superstition". You know that assertion will have no effect on my belief.

Now, about "diliberate discrimination". As I have expounded those passages the "deliberate discrimination" that Paul the Apostle penned down, as I believe, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, he did no single out homosexuality above other things.

Let's be fair now. In the first list Paul mentioned"factions, divisions, sects" . Now I do not mind if you accuse me of deliberate discrimination as long as you acknowledge that the same "discrimination" is applied equally to "factions, sects, divisions" .

Wth Paul then, I would warn Christians that separating yourself in a sectarian and divisive way from other Christians as a denomination could be a concern. It might cause one to not be able to inherit the kingdom of God.

The same would go for other matters equally discriminated by the Lord's apostle - "fornication, uncleaness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities ..." etc. .

Each one of these, Paul warns, could be a cause to stumble the believer disallowing him to participate in the kingdom of God.

This does not excuse homosexuality. But it does place it on an equal footing with many other behaviors which can be obstacles to the normal Christian life.

You may not personally agree with me characterizing you as supporting discrimination and condemnation - and fair enough, if so - but as you know, evangelistic Christians (among others) do exactly that, in their droves.

I have to follow the Lord Jesus as I see He leads me. When I come before the judgment seat of Christ, I will not have to give an account to Him about "droves" of other Christians. I will have to give an account to Him about MY Christian life.

"[YOU] ... follow Me." was Christ's words to Peter. "But Lord, DROVES of other Christians are doing this, that, and the other ! What about them ?"

The Lord's reply has always been to His disciples " [YOU] ... follow Me"

Now let me repeat a word I have said before about "tolerance".

First show me a person with convictions. First show me a person who has a strong belief in something. Then we can ascertain how TOLERANT they are towards others with a different belief.

Many people are simply lost, undecided, drifting with the current of the times, uncommitted, and unconvinced of anything. They do not know what to stand for. I don't think these people can be seen as "tolerant". They are just perhaps sloppy and apathetic.

I have strong beliefs. But in Christ I have true tolerance towards others who believe differently. I have members in my own family who are of the gay community. I love them in Christ. And I think they would admit that though I am faithful to what the Bible teaches I am really "tolerant" towards them.

There are many many of us Christians who are truly tolerant. Some of us were homosexuals. We found love and help in Jesus and with the people of Jesus.

You won't find much coverage about that on CNN or NPR or FOX because that is not sensational. Hatred and intolerance are sensational. But God knows us. And God will reward us.

Anyway, the Jesus Christ who lives in me [edited] is the Friend of Sinners. He is the Good Shepherd that left the 99 and went out to rescue the one lost sheep.

Since more and more people are being enfluenced by homosexuality, the church has to take Christ as our attitude and actions. He was the Friend of Sinners. The same precious blood that He shed for me on Calvary is what He shed for every sinner. I remember these things as I go to the world with the Gospel.

To a group like the Westboro Baptist Church, I might remind them that "the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God" (James 1:20)

Opposing proponents of intolerance is hardly "irrational". Fighting discrimination is hardly the result of "paranoid dread". So the terminology "evangelphobia" does not pass muster, I reckon, whereas your superstitious, 'metaphysical' objection to someone else's sexual orientation, based on something you read in a book you like, does appear to lack any logic that cannot easily be shown to be circular.

I do not encourage anyone to be "sin centered". We should turn our eyes to Jesus. We should not obsess with our sin - any sin.

It does not pay to FOCUS on one's weakness. So if I met a homosexual who desired to be saved and or to follow Christ, I would not have them FOCUS on their homosexuality or their fornication or any other problem.

I would encourage them to look away to Jesus. Neither your disgust nor your tolerating of your sins helps. It is only by looking away to where salvation is found - in Christ.

And the principle of the people of the kingdom of God is to be ever disciplined with themselves but merciful towards others. Without Christ, human nature is just the opposite. Human nature is to be strict with the other guy yet very merciful with ones's self.

A man may love a man. A woman may love a woman. Christ can teach us much about pure love of man to man and woman to woman. The bible draws a line about expressing such love with having sex with each other.

You will have to blame my Creator. He designed our humanity and our sexuality out of His wisdom and knowledge. So why not we go to God to receive light on how we humans should live ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Of course don't expect me to accept your characterization of the New Testament as "superstition". You know that assertion will have no effect on my belief.

Well, by a similar reckoning, you know that calling those who look upon what you profess as subjective and superstitious - calling them "irrational and paranoid" - will have no effect on their distaste for what you believe.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, by a similar reckoning, you know that calling those who look upon what you profess as subjective and superstitious - calling them "irrational and paranoid" - will have no effect on their distaste for what you believe.

I witnessed my dear younger brother weaken and weaken and finally die of HIV infection. He was in the gay community on the west coast in San Francisco.

God knows my heart. And though I talked with him [my younger brother] he knew I never acted as to hate him or his friends.

Do you have a better way to live than following Jesus Christ ? You go live that. Some of us are going to walk with the Prince of Life, Jesus.

Originally posted by jaywill

This is an interesting point. However, is it really "irrational and paranoid" to oppose the way you seek to rationalize the deliberate discrimination against and condemnation of certain minority based on your superstition?

Of course don't expect me to accept your characterization of the New Testament as "superstition". You know that as ...[text shortened]... receive light on how we humans should live ?

you seem to be proud that you are 'tolerant' but when it comes to homosexuality there should be nothing that needs tolerating. they is nothing to tolerate. you tell me what aspects of homosexuality you bugs you? your tolerance is also limited, you have the knowledge that if they dont change their ways they will go to hell. thats not tolerance, thats just playing the long game. if you can look somebody in the face and be friendly to them, but equally be okay with the fact that they are going to be punished for eternity then thats border line psychopathic, i personally would be distraught if i went through life looking at the majority of the world and thinking they are all going to suffer.

at the end of the day you, your love of your god blinds your logic. you can avoid dealing with the issues by saying you are nice to homosexuals, while in the next breath you are looking forward to the return of christ which will also bring about the destruction of billions of really nice people, some who happen to be gay.

"Since more and more people are being enfluenced by homosexuality"

what does this mean???? how are people being more influenced by homosexuality? what does being influenced by homosexuality even mean? what is the outcome of this influence that is a problem?

isnt god the biggest discriminator in existence?


"So why not we go to God to receive light on how we humans should live"

talk me through what happens if a homosexual turns to god for help?

Originally posted by JS357
I was providing what I found. My comment was to the effect that robbie (like most of us, I'd say) has a urge to use violence on rapists, but in robbie's case he leaves it to his God to handle, who he says has more patience. I said if his faith keeps him from acting out his rage, let it be. I don't think I'm picking on anyone but I will take a look at how I say things.

don''t worry dude, i misunderstood the discussion because i didn't read the whole posts.

Originally posted by jaywill
I witnessed my dear younger brother weaken and weaken and finally die of HIV infection. He was in the gay community on the west coast in San Francisco.

God knows my heart. And though I talked with him [my younger brother] he knew I never acted as to hate him or his friends.

Do you have a better way to live than following Jesus Christ ? You go live that. Some of us are going to walk with the Prince of Life, Jesus.

there are different ways to express hate. considering a gay person will go to hell just because of who he chooses to love and to be intimate with is a sort of hate too.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
.. considering a gay person will go to hell just because of who he chooses to love and to be intimate with is a sort of hate too.

That is a 'sort of nonsense' statement.

Christians worth their salt can say nothing different than ..

".... The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin and those who sin according to Christ will not inherit the Kingdom of God .."

Christians should however resist the temptation to tell anyone they are going to hell because nobody but Christ can condemn people.