Homosexuals in heaven?

Originally posted by nook7
Not according to many christian groups.

There has been plenty of faith vs works arguments on these forums.

Well, granted, a certain bit of it IS also about "getting off your fat ass and doing something to benefit others".

Talking is not doing. Doing more is a direct result of having more faith. Or maybe that's just me.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No. Being prepared and ready to face God is better.

But this requires a certain "humbleness" and "faithfulness" that is quite beyond most in this forum.

Including yourself, apparently. 😞

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well, granted, a certain bit of it IS also about "getting off your fat ass and doing something to benefit others".

Talking is not doing. Doing more is a direct result of having more faith. Or maybe that's just me.

There does not have to be any religious association /involvement for people to help each other.

Helping people predates any organised religion.

Why do christians constantly try to make it a purely religious thibg to do this....

Originally posted by Suzianne
I think you're missing the entire point of the Bible.

It's not about dying and what to do before you die or reward after. It's about living and what to do while you are still here. It is all about "doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do".

This sounds good. I can respect that. If christians looked at the bible in a figurative sense, I could identify with them a little more than I do now. The problem (in my opinion), is that most christians think that the bible is true. What do you take from this book as far as fact or fiction? Is it a moral road map, or the life of a man that produced all of these real life miracles?

If what you say is true, then why do the majority of christians think that nonbelievers will be punished when they die for not believing in your Christ? I am a little confused here. I consider myself a descent person. I slip up, but who doesn't? If I try to do the right thing, then why should I be punished for a lack of belief in these fantasy/parables? Why some of them have good lessons to be learned, I would never take any of them literally.

The bible apparently reads different for me than it does for you. I can respect almost any opinion. What I don't respect is people casting unfair judgement on me when I choose to believe something diferent from them.

Originally posted by nook7
There does not have to be any religious association /involvement for people to help each other.

Helping people predates any organised religion.

Why do christians constantly try to make it a purely religious thibg to do this....

Sigh.

It is not a purely religious thing to do this.

This is why the Bible is for all people. Many who are from other religions (and yes, even those without any religion) are encouraged to take lessons from it.

The sad fact is, that most people, left to their own devices, focus on themselves and the entire idea of helping anyone else kinda gets tossed out with the bathwater. It's good to have a reminder.

Originally posted by usmc7257
This sounds good. I can respect that. If christians looked at the bible in a figurative sense, I could identify with them a little more than I do now. The problem (in my opinion), is that most christians think that the bible is true. What do you take from this book as far as fact or fiction? Is it a moral road map, or the life of a man that produced all of ...[text shortened]... s people casting unfair judgement on me when I choose to believe something diferent from them.

Because "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Christ came to bridge that gap. Not believing in Him means you do not think it worthwhile to bridge that gap. Meaning you wish to stay in your sin. Man eventually gets punished for sin, not for lack of belief. But this is the deeper message of the Bible, and the source of its "Good News" is the Gospels. There is no rule that says you cannot take away any of the other lessons about living on this planet with your fellow man.

Christians do believe that there is no other way to God but through Christ. This means if you deny the Christ, you deny God, and you will eventually receive punishment for your sins. That's just what we believe, it's the hard fact of life.

However, God has gifted us all with Free Will. Your choices are your own. If you refuse to believe in Christ, that's fine, but please understand that for Christians, this means you accept your punishment. "People casting unfair judgement on me" is not really what we are about though. We are called to help all men, whatever they believe, but please recognize, we are also commanded to at least expose you to the options. But no, it is not our place to judge, fairly or unfairly. Judgement is God's job, not ours. This is exactly why Christ helped the prostitutes and thieves and the lowest dregs of society. He came not to judge, but to redeem.

But again, this is all the deeper message of the Bible. As I said, there is no law that says you cannot take what lessons you will from it.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Because "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Christ came to bridge that gap. Not believing in Him means you do not think it worthwhile to bridge that gap. Meaning you wish to stay in your sin. Man eventually gets punished for sin, not for lack of belief. But this is the deeper message of the Bible, and the source of its "Good News" is ...[text shortened]... . As I said, there is no law that says you cannot take what lessons you will from it.

Therein lies the problem. Our core beliefs are different. I don't believe in god. I believe he was made up by man to keep people in line. For lack of a better term a prehisortic boogie man. I don't believe that I will be punished when I die because I believe that there is no life after death. That being said, I think that living a moral, trustworthy life is worth my while and strive to set a great exmple for my sons. I believe in free will. Christians say they believe in free will but do they really? Think about it. Many of you want to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, but do you not have an ulterior motive? Ultimately, you do these works and witness to others to gain favor with your god ensuring you have a spot in your destination of choice when you die. So how is the bible not about death? Its deeper teachings provide you with a roadmap to ensure that you are happy when you die.

While I can't gain anything by trying to get christians to see my view of life, the opposite seems true of christians. They are commanded to spread the word they believe to receive the perks of theri afterlife.

Originally posted by FMF
Having looked at the links you provided, I have exactly the same question as JS357: So does the Christian view range from demonization to acceptance of homosexual acts?

As is predicted in the New testamwent, false teachers have entered the Christian church and in these times we are seeing a falling away from right doctrine. Many church leaders in various denominations are replacing the truth with lies, like God is in agreement with evolution and homosexual acts.

Originally posted by usmc7257
Ultimately, you do these works and witness to others to gain favor with your god ensuring you have a spot in your destination of choice when you die. So how is the bible not about death? Its deeper teachings provide you with a roadmap to ensure that you are happy when you die.

While I can't gain anything by trying to get christians to see my view of life ...[text shortened]... ns. They are commanded to spread the word they believe to receive the perks of theri afterlife.

This is just a twisted view of what I do/what it means to me. It's a cynical version of the truth. It sounds like the "sonhouse" version of what supposedly motivates me and all Christians. It's biased with your own denial of God. You seem to justify your denial of God by these side issues, like "what Christians do" and "what Christians are like" and "why Christians act all godly and stuff".

Like I said to begin with, you're missing the point entirely.

Originally posted by usmc7257
You took nothing else in my post to heart. It seems you only tried to defend some examples of bible=fantasy. What about assuming I am immature because your bible quote reminded me of an old movie?

Typical deflection.

The bible has its good attributes. Many of the parables it contains have good, moral lessons to be learned. This fact is not lost on me. ...[text shortened]... han someone who does the right thing because he thinks he will get rewarded for it when he dies.

You are not going to help your son by teaching him that Christ is not the way, the truth, and the life.

Originally posted by RJHinds
As is predicted in the New testamwent, false teachers have entered the Christian church and in these times we are seeing a falling away from right doctrine. Many church leaders in various denominations are replacing the truth with lies, like God is in agreement with evolution and homosexual acts.

Did you read the links you provided before you posted them?

Originally posted by RJHinds
You are not going to help your son by teaching him that Christ is not the way, the truth, and the life.

Being a "hardliner" doesn't help anyone, either.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is just a twisted view of what I do/what it means to me. It's a cynical version of the truth. It sounds like the "sonhouse" version of what supposedly motivates me and all Christians. It's biased with your own denial of God. You seem to justify your denial of God by these side issues, like "what Christians do" and "what Christians are like" and "wh ...[text shortened]... ll godly and stuff".

Like I said to begin with, you're missing the point entirely.

How am I being biased? How am I twisting the christian thought process? Is witnessing not in your doctrine? Is the reason for this witnessing not to do as you are commanded to gain your spot in heaven? I apologize if you think I have twisted your words. I don't recall a debate with you in the past, and you are clearly have a thought process aboove RJ (my normal focus of disagreement). You seem genuine. If you wish to pigeonhole me into a "sonhouse" view of christianity, that is not my problem. I have always thought for myself and will continue to do so until my time on earth is up.


My denial of god is not dependant on side issues. I deny him beause I don't believe in the literal stories of the bible. I think most religions provide a good foundation of morality, but the bible has too many contradictions for me to believe that it was a god's work and not man's. I have been a part of cristianity for many years. What makes you think that I deny god because of points I have missed? I have a very good understanding of the bible. Any points you think I have missed are noted, but I think you might be mistaken when you just assume that I have missed the point because I reject your way of thinking.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You are not going to help your son by teaching him that Christ is not the way, the truth, and the life.

I have no interest in anything you have to say. You are nothing more than a hypocrite. If this is really the way you feel (and not just a satirical persona you have created to amuse yourself), then I feel sorry for you. You are the type of judgemental bigot that turns potential christians away from your religion to begin with. I didn't post in your goodbye thread because I knew you would not leave. You are a cancer to this site with yout cheating and a cancer to christianity with your sarcastic approach to your thruths. I want no further dealings with you.


It is my hope that my sons will grow up to be better men than me. They will EASILY be better men than you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Just as Christ viewed doing the will of God, the Father in heaven, as the basis of moral right, we followers of Christ attempt to continue in that belief. What we believe God and Christ saw as good and evil, we Christians use as our basis for what is right and wrong.

Well, from the links you provided to be educational, it appears that whatever "we Christians" use as your basis of what is right and wrong, leads to quite opposite conclusions as to what is right and wrong, on the acceptability of homosexual acts. But thank you for making this so obvious, RJ you really revealed the deep contradictions that exist within Christianity.

This exchange is now lost in the blizzard following USMC's post, but this is nothing new. I regret that I may not hear back on my query to jaywill, a query that has now been buried.