How many here want freedom FROM religion?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Are you referring to the following one?

Now these are the judgments which you shall set before them: If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing.
(Exodus 21:1-2 NKJV)

[b]He goes free after 6 years of service.[/b]

jaywill here.

The man does not want to here that. He wants to show that all to Bible arguments leveled by racist Confederate theologians twisting the Bible were in fact justified.

This is re-fighting an old battle successfuly won by the Quakers, Methodists, and Mennonite Bible students of the 19th century. From the souless black man, to the curse of Ham, to the God wants good Christians to have slaves, all these debates were vanquished years ago.

If I get a chance I will speak to the complaints that "accomodation" to surrounding Ancient Near East customs to some degree, was not good for God to do. We'll look at that complaint.

Ie. The Bible quotes God as saying He hates divorce, in the book of Malachi. Yet for the hardness of man's heart He put in the Law of Moses provisions for divorce, overwhelmngly for the purpose of protecting the divorced woman.

In like manner, dept servitude, was made provision for.

In contrast there is no provision in God's law for prostitution, another very ancient custom.

In contrast there is no provision in God's law for human sacrifice, also widely practiced in the surrounding nations.

Dept servitude, was apparently not viewed by God as on the same level of unjustness as the former two matters.

Originally posted by GSWILL
Ie. The Bible quotes God as saying He hates divorce, in the book of Malachi. Yet for the hardness of man's heart He put in the Law of Moses provisions for divorce, overwhelmngly for the purpose of protecting the divorced woman.

Essentially, even God admits that there are times when divorce is better than the alternative, but he still expresses his hate of the practice.
However when it comes to slavery, he never speaks against it anywhere in the Bible. Nor can it be argued that the examples of slavery given provision for in the Bible are better than the alternative.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Are you referring to the following one?

Now these are the judgments which you shall set before them: If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing.
(Exodus 21:1-2 NKJV)

[b]He goes free after 6 years of service.[/b]

Good, you're finally reading it. Keep going. Tell me who's speaking in that chapter.

Originally posted by GSWILL
The man does not want to here that. He wants to show that all to Bible arguments leveled by racist Confederate theologians twisting the Bible were in fact justified.

Lying is a sin, you know. I haven't said a thing in support of any arguments of 'confederate theologians' [whatever that is!] and you know it.

Originally posted by GSWILL
Ie. The Bible quotes God as saying He hates divorce, in the book of Malachi. Yet for the hardness of man's heart He put in the Law of Moses provisions for divorce, overwhelmngly for the purpose of protecting the divorced woman.

In like manner, dept servitude, was made provision for.

Did God make it legal to beat a slave nearly to death, 'overwhelmingly for the purpose of protecting' the enslaved man? 🙄

Bizarro-protection, if so.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Lying is a sin, you know. I haven't said a thing in support of any arguments of 'confederate theologians' [whatever that is!] and you know it.

I meant in principle, you and many other "God Endorses Slavery" promoters seem to be rehashing the arguments put forth about the Bible teaching and God wanting the slave institution as practiced in the Americas.

The reasons you hurl at me to prove God is pro-slavery are much of the same reasons Confederate states preachers preached in the American South to prove Slavery was God's will for them.

Do you understand that? In principle, that is what I see going on.
I do not mean that you are trying to bring back the American Slave Trade.

Now, while you are concerned about lying and accurately portraying another's postion, I think you should seriously reconsider your accusation - namely that the God of the Bible endorsed Sex Slavery.

If you dust off that disproved accusation and use it again in the future, I would question the sinfulness of your lying about God.

The case you put forward was definitely of a owner of a slave deciding to MARRY that slave. So, are you going to use that disproved accusation again in the future or have you been a bit educated ?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Did God make it legal to beat a slave nearly to death, 'overwhelmingly for the purpose of protecting' the enslaved man? 🙄

Bizarro-protection, if so.

jaywill here at a relative's PC.

Did God make it legal to beat a slave nearly to death, 'overwhelmingly for the purpose of protecting' the enslaved man?

So we move on to the bodily harm permitted to be done to the Hebrew's servant. I suspect more than one post I need to discuss this. I'm looking into it.

Let's look at the very obvious first.

The Injured Servants were to be RELEASED - Codes refering to the injured servants are found in Exodus 21:26-27. There may be others I need to study.

When a master (employer) accidently gouged out the eye or knocked out the tooth of his male of female servant, he or she was to go out FREE. I can think of no parellel to this is the kind of slavery practiced in the American South.

Bodily abuse of the servant was not permitted. If a master's (employer's) discipline resulted in the servants death, guess what? The master himself was to be put to death (Exodus 21:20) This is with the understanding that the strong word for punished there indicates death. Some may argue that "punished" there does not mean a death penalty.

Either way, the slave master is punished. And no punishment whatever was exacted on 19th century slave traders and owners who maimed or killed their African slaves.

In contrast to the Mosaic law we have the ancient Code of Hammurabi which permitted the slave owner to cut off the servant's ear. Typically the ones compensated for slave injuries was the master and not the slave in Ancient Near Eastern societies.

The arrangement under God's law, I think, while not ideal, was a social improvement.

The Law of God was different from other ANE code in that it held the master responsible for the mistreatment of his OWN servant and not just the mistreatment of ANOTHER's servant.

Maybe more on this latter.

Originally posted by GSWILL
I meant in principle, you and many other "God Endorses Slavery" promoters seem to be rehashing the arguments put forth about the Bible teaching and God wanting the slave institution as practiced in the Americas.

The reasons you hurl at me to prove God is pro-slavery are much of the same reasons Confederate states preachers preached in the American Sout going to use that disproved accusation again in the future or have you been a bit educated ?

I used only the quoted words of God to establish my claim that God endorsed slavery. You have defended only by pointing out that the trade was regulated and cloaked under words like 'marriage' to rationalize what was happening. None of this changes the fact that the trade was perfectly legal.

So, my accusation stands. I will use it now, and in the future, until someone comes up with a better defense.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I used only the quoted words of God to establish my claim that God endorsed slavery. You have defended only by pointing out that the trade was regulated and cloaked under words like 'marriage' to rationalize what was happening. None of this changes the fact that the trade was perfectly legal.

So, my accusation stands. I will use it now, and in the future, until someone comes up with a better defense.

Like verses from the Gnostic gospel?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Are you referring to the following one?

Now these are the judgments which you shall set before them: If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing.
(Exodus 21:1-2 NKJV)

[b]He goes free after 6 years of service.[/b]

you and jaywill are both confusing bonded servitude with slavery. there are regulations for both in the bible. biblegod endorses both.

bonded servitude applies to hebrew servants. hebrews aren't allowed to keep other hebrews as slaves (unless they give him a wife and he 'volunteers' to become a permanent slave).

bonded servants are set free after 6 years (as opposed to 3 years in the more ethical hammurabi system).

foreign slaves however are a property forever and they are passed as inheritance.

any argument that other cultures have existed with harsher treatment of slaves is irrelevant.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I used only the quoted words of God to establish my claim that God endorsed slavery. You have defended only by pointing out that the trade was regulated and cloaked under words like 'marriage' to rationalize what was happening. None of this changes the fact that the trade was perfectly legal.

So, my accusation stands. I will use it now, and in the future, until someone comes up with a better defense.

None of this changes the fact that the trade was perfectly legal.

The legality of dept servitude is not in question. As the legality of divorce is unquestionable. It was made legal. That does not count as God endorsing it because He plainly said that He hated divorce (Malachi 2:16) . God does not endorse what He hates.

He gave parameters for dept servitude. Doesn't mean he endorsed slavery. And it certainly doesn't mean He endorsed the style of slavery we knew in the Southern US.

As for your sex slavery accusation, go ahead and continue to make the false claim and I will know that you lie. It is as simple as that.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
you and jaywill are both confusing bonded servitude with slavery. there are regulations for both in the bible. biblegod endorses both.

bonded servitude applies to hebrew servants. hebrews aren't allowed to keep other hebrews as slaves (unless they give him a wife and he 'volunteers' to become a permanent slave).

bonded servants are set fre ...[text shortened]... any argument that other cultures have existed with harsher treatment of slaves is irrelevant.

These rules are man's attempt at government as Jesus pointed out on the divorce issue. These people and all people since then have refused to obey the ten commandments of God. Other laws were needed to deal with this refusal. Although the situations may not be to your liking, since we lack all the detail to judge fairly; but it is what it is and that is not something we need to be concerned with during this day and age as far as I can see. I see no point in making a mountain out of a mole hill and trying to blame God for something He clearly disapproved of. I don't go around blaming God for things our government does today that I disagree with. It is we that should bear the burden of blame for all the wrongs mankind has committed throughout our history. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
These rules are man's attempt at government as Jesus pointed out on the divorce issue. These people and all people since then have refused to obey the ten commandments of God. Other laws were needed to deal with this refusal. Although the situations may not be to your liking, since we lack all the detail to judge fairly; but it is what it is and that is n ...[text shortened]... bear the burden of blame for all the wrongs mankind has committed throughout our history. 😏

So you are deciding that what is written in the bible is not from your god?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Like verses from the Gnostic gospel?

Do tell.

Originally posted by jaywill
The legality of dept servitude is not in question. As the legality of divorce is unquestionable. It was made legal. That does not count as God endorsing it because He plainly said that He hated divorce [b](Malachi 2:16) . God does not endorse what He hates.[/b]

dictionary.com

endorsement
1. approval or sanction: The program for supporting the arts won the government's endorsement.

sanction
1. authoritative permission or approval, as for an action.

English FAIL.