Originally posted by @romans1009 I think it’s pretty clear. If you don’t understand it, I’m not of a mind to make it any clearer
It seems as if you didn't read the OP or went off half-cocked having misunderstood it.
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08 Mar '18 09:09
Originally posted by @fmf It seems as if you didn't read the OP or went off half-cocked having misunderstood it.
I read and understood the OP and gave my perspective. The fact that you apparently don’t understand it doesn’t mean it’s not apparent, or even obvious, to other people.
Originally posted by @romans1009 I read and understood the OP and gave my perspective. The fact that you apparently don’t understand it doesn’t mean it’s not apparent, or even obvious, to other people.
You have copy-pasted 5-6 bits of scripture, not one of them contains the word "forgive" or "forgiveness" or "forgiving" and if I am not mistaken, you have posted maybe a dozen times and have not typed any of the words "forgive" or "forgiveness" or "forgiving" in any of your posts.
Originally posted by @romans1009 The Psalms and James 4:14 speak of the shortness of this life when viewed in the context of eternity. The Psalms also speak to God meting out whatever justice is due, and because He’s a perfectly holy and just God, that justice will be appropriate.
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
(Romans 12:19)
Why are you talking about “vengeance” when the thread topic is about “how to forgive”?
The thread is about the real life practicalities of excercising forgiveness and the potential challenges of trying to forgive, but you seem intent on posting about judgment and vengeance which seems incongruent to the thread title. It is reasonable that people reading will ask you to explain.
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08 Mar '18 09:211 edit
I have no interest in making clearer what already is clear. I’ve written that the Psalms and James 4:14 speak of the brevity of life and the Psalms and Romans verse speak to God meting out whatever justice is needed, and because He is a perfect and perfectly holy and just God, that justice will be appropriate.
If you think that doesn’t address the OP, that’s fine. I have no interest in making it any clearer.
Originally posted by @romans1009 I have no interest in making clearer what already is clear. I’ve written that the Psalms and James 4:14 speak of the brevity of life and the Romans verse speaks to God meting out whatever justice is needed, and because He is a perfect and perfectly holy and just God, that justice will be appropriate.
If you think that doesn’t address the OP, that’s fine. I have no interest in making it any clearer.
Here are some interesting points made earlier in the thread by one poster; perhaps some of us want to pick up on one of these:...
”Forgiveness by the wronged party is made difficult if there is no corresponding (and perceived) remorse on the part of the wrongdoer.
Forgiveness shouldn't rely on downplaying the wrong that was done. Nor should it rely on forgetting the wrongdoing or searching for a way to justify it or even to endorse it.
For forgiveness to work - by which I mean work for the wronged party - I think it has to be about attaining peace of mind and freeing oneself from feelings of resentment, especially if those feelings are corrosive.
I don't think forgiveness relies on there being positive feelings towards the wrongdoer. And I don't think forgiveness is always necessary.
From the point of view of the wrongdoer, if forgiveness does not lead to change or at least the will to change [by way of remorse and reflection], it's probably morally unhealthy.
Forgiveness received when none was thought necessary can lead to resentment. But it should be possible to forgive the forgiver for their forgiveness.”
“And I don't think forgiveness is always necessary.”
This is one that resonated with me. There are many occasions when something wrongful or intentionally harmful is said to me but I don’t feel the need to forgive as I don’t feel harmed or offended.
Originally posted by @fmf I don't think you're making much sense, to be honest, or being very realistic. Are you really talking about stuff that people type on this message board? Who needs to ask for forgiveness? Who needs to forgive? What are you on about?
We all need forgiveness and we all need the feeling of being forgiven. This is a common Christian theme
Originally posted by @divegeester Aren’t you setting out a strawman here; I.e. do you think there are people who “hope to forgive” people whom they simultaneously “dismiss out of pride”?
Yes. I think there are people that you want to forgive but that you also dismiss
As a wise man once said
Oh oh, it's a rocking world
Make no mistake about it
Oh oh, it's a rocking world
Could be what's so crazy about it
Originally posted by @philokalia We all need forgiveness and we all need the feeling of being forgiven. This is a common Christian theme
Innit?
This seems a bit fridge magnet-like to me. But so be it. What about egregious wrong, unrepentant wrongdoers, permanent harm, personal betrayal, family feuds and so on? What about some nitty gritty of 'how to forgive' rather than flimsy stuff about posting styles and sarcasm on a message board?
Originally posted by @philokalia As a wise man once said
Oh oh, it's a rocking world
Make no mistake about it
Oh oh, it's a rocking world
Could be what's so crazy about it
Right.?
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, sorry.
Originally posted by @divegeester How so? How can this be an actual real life scenario. How is it possible to want to dismiss someone but at the same time forgive them?
How to forgive?
08 Mar '18 09:05
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