Originally posted by @philokalia It's too difficult to be in a state of always having to forgive others and exposed to cruelties. You literally have to exit the world to improve sometimes.
Why would you be in a state of always having to forgive others, are you in a situation where you are being wronged by many people?
Originally posted by @philokalia Pride is the greatest barrier to any virtue because it is the belief that one does not really have to change as one is already completely self-sufficient.
If we can just dismiss others, out of our pride, how can we hope to forgive them?
Aren’t you setting out a strawman here; I.e. do you think there are people who “hope to forgive” people whom they simultaneously “dismiss out of pride”?
Originally posted by @romans1009 “Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.”
(Psalm 73:17)
“Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.”
(Psalm 37:1-2)
“But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”
(Psalm 37:20)
Who in your life do you see as the “evildoers” the “workers of iniquity” the “wicked” who you are hoping will “wither as grass” and “consumed into smoke” and who will have an “end” which you have “understood”?
Are you forgiving these people or do you have some insight on how to?
Originally posted by @fmf You think there are people here who want or need you to forgive them or who want or need to forgive you for something?
Oh geez, man, you are suddenly making it sound like you're a jerk if you feel that the person who wronged you should be forgiven, LOL. How did you manage that?
If some dude insults you publicly and tries to shame you, hasn't he done you wrong?
HE HAS!
And he should desire to be forgiven because that is not good behavior.
Holy mackeral, why is this like a thing I am explaining.
Originally posted by @philokalia Oh geez, man, you are suddenly making it sound like you're a jerk if you feel that the person who wronged you should be forgiven, LOL. How did you manage that?
If you think what I said in my post makes it sound like I'm a jerk, that is a matter for you.
Originally posted by @fmf Forgiveness by the wronged party is made difficult if there is no corresponding (and perceived) remorse on the part of the wrongdoer.
Forgiveness shouldn't rely on downplaying the wrong that was done. Nor should it rely on forgetting the wrongdoing or searching for a way to justify it or even to endorse it.
For forgiveness to work - by which I mean work ...[text shortened]... can lead to resentment. But it should be possible to forgive the forgiver for their forgiveness.
All good points. Without obligation, do you have a example of how these ideas or one of them may have played out for you personally?
Originally posted by @philokalia If some dude insults you publicly and tries to shame you, hasn't he done you wrong?
Insults me? On a message board like this? No, it's water off a duck's back ~ and I don't think he has 'done me wrong'. People should say what they think, like you are. It's interesting.
This all goes well with the Christian concept that we are often misbehaving And even if we are not misbehaving, we are sometimes inadequate or misreading a situation and not properly being there for someone.
I knew a guy who killed himself. We were buddies -- I saw him six or seven hours before he took the plunge, and we both literally said "Oh man, we should hang out more!"
The guy broke up with his fiancee and I was never really near enough to him to help him and I have felt, to some degree, inadequate, and like I should have done something more...
I think it's human and perhaps even beautiful that we wish we were ebtter than we are and that we would have been able to transcend human limitation. Now cue the guy who will say "zomg that's just terrible, Christianity preaches such shame!"
As I close my eyes and sigh lightly, realizing It Is A Beautiful World And I Am Not Afraid To die.
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08 Mar '18 08:30
Originally posted by @divegeester Who in your life do you see as the “evildoers” the “workers of iniquity” the “wicked” who you are hoping will “wither as grass” and “consumed into smoke” and who will have an “end” which you have “understood”?
Are you forgiving these people or do you have some insight on how to?
<<Who in your life do you see as the “evildoers” the “workers of iniquity” the “wicked” who you are hoping will “wither as grass” and “consumed into smoke” and who will have an “end” which you have “understood”? >>
You’re misrepresenting my position. I’m not “hoping” that happens. It just will.
<<Are you forgiving these people or do you have some insight on how to?>>
“Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.”
Originally posted by @philokalia Holy mackeral, why is this like a thing I am explaining.
I don't think you're making much sense, to be honest, or being very realistic. Are you really talking about stuff that people type on this message board? Who needs to ask for forgiveness? Who needs to forgive? What are you on about?
08 Mar '18 05:55
How to forgive?
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