I am a theist

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If I make your answer short you say:
"Yes, he is welcome, but he cannot have sex with another man while he is a member."
Is this short version of your answer correct?

I don't think Mr Booth has anything against us discuss friendly about any subject. He react when the nazi card was brought forward and the accusations of who was nazi and such lines. ...[text shortened]... him right away, pardon us, and start a new thread, heading with the same question once again.

yes he is welcome and he can do what he pleases, but he cannot become a Witness while he practices homosexuality, either before or after.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes he is welcome and he can do what he pleases, but he cannot become a Witness while he practices homosexuality, either before or after.

What do you men by 'before'? If he once practiced homosexual acts, will he ever be able to be a JW member?

Isn't it only during his membership he cannot practice homosexual acts?

Originally posted by Penguin
One wonders why you say you believe there is a God. You have no evidence to support this belief, as you freely admit. You don't even have any subjective evidence. What do think is the reason for your belief?

The biosphere.

I'm interested to know what effect your belief in a God has on your life. Do you think you would think or behave any differently without this belief?

No effect really. Well, I think if I believed in a religion or a dogma or some culturally specific simplification, I would probably get sucked in to all the plucked from thin air speculation and formulation of elaborate hopes that so many "theists" seem to think their lives have no meaning without.

You say you contemplate it (your belief?) from time to time. What is the result of your contemplations?

A feeling that life is wonderful and thrilling. And... isn't all the speculation about how "there must be something more" and how bets must be hedged by "worshipping" God and lapping up centuries' worth of folktales and prosaic superstitions, and communities and nations and people killing each other over it... is all a bit silly and sad, IMHO...?

Do you have any views concerning the attributes of this God? Is there just one, or many? Do you think he/she/it/they take an interest in the world? Do they have any direct influence? Are they utterly disinterested? Do you think the Universe was created by them or are they part of the universe?

Attributes? No. How many? No idea. Take "an interest"? No. Influence? No. Disinterested? Aren't 'interest' and 'disinterest', human characteristics? And doesn't stuff like 'homos are bad' and 'don't have sex before your married' sound SO VERY human rather than Creator-like?! he he. Created by it/him/them? Yes, probably. But I don't speculate. And whetever I do contemplate, I certainly don't try to simplify it beyond all use by reducing it to words. Only people who need religion or need to change other people's minds do that and it leads nowhere as far as I am concerned.

It is very strange to have someone on the forums who says they believe in God but has such a nebulous view on the implications of such a belief. We do tend to be very certain of ourselves here.

Why does the belief have to have "implications"? Who is to say that anything more specific than a nebulous view is nothing more than rank oversimplification, delusion or trivialization?

The only thing you seem to be certain of is that you believe in something you call God but have no idea or interest in what this thing is that you believe in.

What are, in your view, the implications for me of having "no interest" in speculating about things that neither you nor I can possibly know for sure?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
What do you men by 'before'? If he once practiced homosexual acts, will he ever be able to be a JW member?

Isn't it only during his membership he cannot practice homosexual acts?

yes, many people once practised homosexual acts and then stopped and became Witnesses. You see Fabian, its not like joining a chess club, there is a certain standard of morality expected, before one becomes a witness and afterwards.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes, many people once practised homosexual acts and then stopped and became Witnesses. You see Fabian, its not like joining a chess club, there is a certain standard of morality expected, before one becomes a witness and afterwards.

So before is okay, after is okay, during membership in JW is not okay.

Let's leave the moral card outside this game. You know my opinions about that. Let's not go there.

Okay, let's say that someone knocking at the JW door, asking for membership, do you then ask him of his sexual orientation before he signs up? Or do you accept him without asking?

Originally posted by Penguin
--- Penguin (intrigued).

Thank you for the civil and thoughtful engagement. Beats the "You cannot deny the JW Holocaust victims transcended death, you can't deny that TOSSER!!" which amounts to a Theology Smackdown approach which I have been subjected to here... followed up with trainspottery stuff about 'rejection of homos, because homos are bad, God don't like homos' and ancient book-driven 'social conservatism' and 'God Has Told Me Stuff' brands of theism that are bandied about here and elsewhere.

Originally posted by John W Booth
Thank you for the civil and thoughtful engagement. Beats the "You cannot deny the JW Holocaust victims transcended death, you can't deny that TOSSER!!" which amounts to a Theology Smackdown approach which I have been subjected to here... followed up with trainspottery stuff about 'rejection of homos, because homos are bad, God don't like homos' and anci nd 'God Has Told Me Stuff' brands of theism that are bandied about here and elsewhere.

haha what a pansy - sic semper tyrannis 😛

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So before is okay, after is okay, during membership in JW is not okay.

Let's leave the moral card outside this game. You know my opinions about that. Let's not go there.

Okay, let's say that someone knocking at the JW door, asking for membership, do you then ask him of his sexual orientation before he signs up? Or do you accept him without asking?

as I stated Fabian its not like joining a chess club, unless you are living up to the Bibles morality you cannot become a Witness no matter what you do. Anyone is free to attend meetings, regardless of what they do, as long as they don't interrupt the proceedings.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
as I stated Fabian its not like joining a chess club, unless you are living up to the Bibles morality you cannot become a Witness no matter what you do. Anyone is free to attend meetings, regardless of what they do, as long as they don't interrupt the proceedings.

But now you didn't answer my question.

The question was: "Okay, let's say that someone knocking at the JW door, asking for membership, do you then ask him of his sexual orientation before he signs up? Or do you accept him without asking?"

I know it's not a chess club. In chess clubs the sexual orientation is of any others concern. Remember that chess clubs members are mostly men, men enjoying to play with eachother, mating eachother, or agree to a good draw. I would say that in this respect, chess club is more moral than churches, because the way people express their love doesn't matter for the game. Caïssa doesn't care.

So back to the question...

Originally posted by FabianFnas
But now you didn't answer my question.

The question was: "Okay, let's say that someone knocking at the JW door, asking for membership, do you then ask him of his sexual orientation before he signs up? Or do you accept him without asking?"

I know it's not a chess club. In chess clubs the sexual orientation is of any others concern. Remember that ches ...[text shortened]... heir love doesn't matter for the game. Caïssa doesn't care.

So back to the question...

I have tried to answer the best i could,

you study to become a witness, you don't sign up. You study Biblical scriptures and principles so as to know how to apply them in your life. During the course of the study (it may last for several years depending on the aptitude of the student) the Biblical view of sexuality will become apparent. If the person is a practising homosexual he will be aware of this and if he wants to shall bring his life into harmony with scripture. If he is successful in doing so he can then apply to become a witness.

Originally posted by John W Booth
I believe there is a God.

I can't prove He (She/It) exists.

I feel no need to.

I contemplate it from time to time.

He hasn't communicated with me.

He hasn't issued me with any instructions.

I have no idea what happens after death.

I leave speculation about that to others.

Because I have no interest in religion.

I feel no onus on me to 'spread' any 'word' about anything to anyone.

I am a theist.

actually it would be more accurate to call you a dieist

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have tried to answer the best i could,

you study to become a witness, you don't sign up. You study Biblical scriptures and principles so as to know how to apply them in your life. During the course of the study (it may last for several years depending on the aptitude of the student) the Biblical view of sexuality will become apparent. If the ...[text shortened]... harmony with scripture. If he is successful in doing so he can then apply to become a witness.

You mean you were assimilated!!

Originally posted by duecer
actually it would be more accurate to call you a dieist

Or even a deist.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You mean you were assimilated!!

Lol, no not quite assimilation by the Borg is against ones will, persons willingly submit to Gods will on the basis of love.

Originally posted by duecer
actually it would be more accurate to call you a dieist

Yes, I think you would be more accurately described (pidgeonholed?) as a deist. From Wikipedia:

Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists.[1][2] In a more specific sense, theism refers to a doctrine concerning the nature of a monotheistic God and God's relationship to the universe.[3] Theism, in this specific sense, conceives of God as personal, present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe. The use of the word theism as indicating a particular doctrine of monotheism arose in the wake of the scientific revolution of the seventeenth century to contrast with the then emerging deism that contended that God, though transcendent and supreme, did not intervene in the natural world and could be known rationally but not via revelation.[4]

Although this could be you, I think your position is far better described by this:

Deism in the philosophy of religion is the standpoint that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that a supreme being created the universe. Further the term often implies that this supreme being does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending to assert that God has a plan for the universe that is not to be altered by intervention in the affairs of human life. Deists believe in the existence of God, in a secular sense, without any reliance on revealed religion or religious authority or holy books.

Do you agree?

By the way, I should mention that I am a fairly intermittant poster here. I will often pop up for a week or so and then vanish for months on end. Please don't take offence if I fail to respond to something. I may be avoiding a difficult point but I may also have just got distracted!

--- Penguin.