I am a theist

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You accused me, you got personal, so you should know, or take back your words.

Don't you see what happening here? I mirror your behaviour. Can we laugh now?

i just want to know how many of your relatives volunteered for the Swedish SS divisions, if its none then say its none, whats the big deal?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i just want to know how many of your relatives volunteered for the Swedish SS divisions, if its none then say its none, whats the big deal?

I've just realized... your playing a Nazi Card against FabianFnas AS WELL! Jeez, dude. You play REAL dirty.

Originally posted by John W Booth
I've just realized... your playing a Nazi Card against FabianFnas AS WELL! Jeez, dude. You play REAL dirty.

it was him that brought it up saying that i hate homosexuals like the Nazis, not me! will you please for goodness sake assign some pure motives to me! Is this cynicism an expression of your theism? If so, get it sorted.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
cannot know???, mmm, shall i rephrase that for you Mr. Booth, 'sheer vanity that you think we have no way of knowing'. If i read my ancient texts and i perceive a personality, is it not possible to get to know that personality? if by observing the natural world i perceive justice, power, wisdom, am i not inclined to ask why its inherent? Indeed if ...[text shortened]... deed if i am cut from the same cloth as Vishy then so are you and everyone else in this forum.

This isn't my argument but I'll butt in anyway; it certainly isn't vanity to hold that there is no way of knowing. The fact is you're are a physical entity with organs that can perceive only physical stimuli, you have not the means to detect or test for anything nonphysical (and yes the thoughts within your mind are the physical consequence of electrochemical activity that takes place in your brain). Unless perhaps I am wrong...are you able to lift heavy objects with nought but will and a stare?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was him that brought it up ....

Jeez, dude. You brought the Holocaust up on this thread. Not me. Not FabianFnas. You did. You brought it up. You.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was him that brought it up saying that i hate homosexuals like the Nazis, not me! will you please for goodness sake assign some pure motives to me! Is this cynicism an expression of your theism? If so, get it sorted.

It's the nazi thing you react against?

Okay, just for reaching out a hand, I correct myself:
You hate homosexuals, not in the nazi way, but you hate homosexuals in the christian genuin JW way. Okay?

Now, I make no connection between the nazis and the JW, there is no connection. You just sat there in the concentration camp together with homosexuals and jews, and gipsies, and the retarded, and others who didn't exactly like the nazis.

Fair enough? (*reaching out the hand*)

Originally posted by Agerg
This isn't my argument but I'll butt in anyway; it certainly isn't vanity to hold that there is no way of knowing. The fact is you're are a physical entity with organs that can perceive only physical stimuli, you have not the means to detect or test for anything nonphysical (and yes the thoughts within your mind are the physical consequence of electrochemical ...[text shortened]... ss perhaps I am wrong...are you able to lift heavy objects with nought but will and a stare?

if you notice Agers i do not contend that there is nought but the mind for perceiving these things, never the less, to state that there is know way of knowing is based on what? that there are no sacred texts? that we cannot examine the physical universe and make inferences? that through the application of principle we are left in any doubt that a course is advantageous or otherwise? If there is no way of finding an article would you bother to search for it? It kind of reminds me of an art school lecturer who was interviewing me once, he stated that there are no correct answers, only correct questions, I could not help but think at the time (although i never said anything), that's bull, for of there are no correct answers then why are we trying to find solutions.

Originally posted by John W Booth
Jeez, dude. You brought the Holocaust up on this thread. Not me. Not FabianFnas. You did. You brought it up. You.

Mr. Booth, you should write an Epic poem, Boothwolf and the saga of the holocaust citation! I brought it up to simply answer a point that you insisted on making! no other reason and don't even try to impute one!

Originally posted by FabianFnas
It's the nazi thing you react against?

Okay, just for reaching out a hand, I correct myself:
You hate homosexuals, not in the nazi way, but you hate homosexuals in the christian genuin JW way. Okay?

Now, I make no connection between the nazis and the JW, there is no connection. You just sat there in the concentration camp together with homosexuals ...[text shortened]... arded, and others who didn't exactly like the nazis.

Fair enough? (*reaching out the hand*)

yes Fabian, although we did more than sit around, i can assure you, but not to offend Mr .Booths sensibilities in this regard any further, can we talk about something else, handshake 🙂 Ill even talk about homosexuals, no we don't hate them, we simply do not accept the practice, as persons were cool with them, but we cannot condone the practice, its against Biblical principles.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes Fabian, although we did more than sit around, i can assure you, but not to offend Mr .Booths sensibilities in this regard any further, can we talk about something else, handshake 🙂 Ill even talk about homosexuals, no we don't hate them, we simply do not accept the practice, as persons were cool with them, but we cannot condone the practice, its against Biblical principles.

Okay, we skip the nazi angle.

Let's talk about homosexuals. If anyone knocks at the JW door, saying: "I'm homosexual, can I became a member of JW", what would the doorman say?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Okay, we skip the nazi angle.

Let's talk about homosexuals. If anyone knocks at the JW door, saying: "I'm homosexual, can I became a member of JW", what would the doorman say?

you may ant to start a new thread, for i am conscious of not wanting to upset Mr.Booth more than i have done so already by hijacking his thread, maybe hes the generous free spirited sort and dont mind as long as we give it back 🙂

Actually there are many instances of persons who were formerly homosexuals and who changed to become Jehovahs witnesses, in some cases, the struggle was really difficult. But with Gods help they did it. If someone asks to be a witness then they need to study and understand the principles that we espouse (Biblical principles), anyone is free to study but to be a baptised Witness you need to be living by Bible principles, therefore a practising homosexual could study and attend meetings but they could not engage on the field ministry (we are representatives of a different morality after all) nor become a baptised Witness while they continued to practice homosexuality.

So to answer your question, if a homosexual wanted to attend the Kingdom hall, they are more than welcome to, its a public meeting after all, for members of the public. The doorman would shake their hand and escort them to a seat.

Originally posted by John W Booth
I believe there is a God.

I can't prove He (She/It) exists.

I feel no need to.

I contemplate it from time to time.

He hasn't communicated with me.

He hasn't issued me with any instructions.

I have no idea what happens after death.

I leave speculation about that to others.

Because I have no interest in religion.

I feel no onus on me to 'spread' any 'word' about anything to anyone.

I am a theist.

One wonders why you say you believe there is a God. You have no evidence to support this belief, as you freely admit. You don't even have any subjective evidence. What do think is the reason for your belief?

I'm interested to know what effect your belief in a God has on your life. Do you think you would think or behave any differently without this belief?

You say you contemplate it (your belief?) from time to time. What is the result of your contemplations?

Do you have any views concerning the attributes of this God? Is there just one, or many? Do you think he/she/it/they take an interest in the world? Do they have any direct influence? Are they utterly disinterested? Do you think the Universe was created by them or are they part of the universe?

It is very strange to have someone on the forums who says they believe in God but has such a nebulous view on the implications of such a belief. We do tend to be very certain of ourselves here. The only thing you seem to be certain of is that you believe in something you call God but have no idea or interest in what this thing is that you believe in.

--- Penguin (intrigued).

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I brought it up to simply answer a point that you insisted on making! no other reason and don't even try to impute one!

In my OP I say "I have no idea what happens after death. I leave speculation about that to others."

To which you responded: "There is no need for speculation in this regard [life after death], the matter is quite clear.

You then asserted that "At death we are unconscious as if sleeping, awaiting the resurrection, we are conscious of no pain and no suffering. This hope of the resurrection is so powerful its transcends death itself. " You claimed that it wasn't "made up" because you'd read it in a book.

You offered as 'proof', and presumably wishing to stifle debate, this: "...the hope of resurrection is able to transcend death is also verifiable as persons of my own religious denomination demonstrated during their incarceration in the Nazi death camps, you see Mr. Booth, the hope of the resurrection enabled them to face death with dignity and a hope that they would see the resurrection, thus it was able to transcend death itself. That is a reality that you cannot nor will not deny Mr.Booth."

In other words, I have to accept some ancient text you happen to subscribe to or, if I don't, I am "denying" the Holocaust victims were able to "transcend death"?

You were being for real?

Originally posted by John W Booth
In my OP I say "I have no idea what happens after death. I leave speculation about that to others."
To which you responded: "There is no need for speculation in this regard [life after death], the matter is quite clear.

You then asserted that "At death we are unconscious as if sleeping, awaiting the resurrection, we are conscious Holocaust victims were able to "transcend death"?

You were being for real?

Mr Booth, if i say ok, you win and agree with everything you say, will you be happy?

Life after death is one thing, the resurrection hope another, the holocaust quite another. Its not to transcend physical death Mr. Booth for many of them died, although in a sense it must, for they hope to be resurrected, ummm, can i readjust my thoughts on that, yes it does transcend both fear of death and physical death for in the future they will be resurrected, as my ancient texts tell me so. Yes i was being real and so were they that underwent the test.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you may ant to start a new thread, for i am conscious of not wanting to upset Mr.Booth more than i have done so already by hijacking his thread, maybe hes the generous free spirited sort and dont mind as long as we give it back 🙂

Actually there are many instances of persons who were formerly homosexuals and who changed to become Jehovahs witnesse ...[text shortened]... r all, for members of the public. The doorman would shake their hand and escort them to a seat.

If I make your answer short you say:
"Yes, he is welcome, but he cannot have sex with another man while he is a member."
Is this short version of your answer correct?

I don't think Mr Booth has anything against us discuss friendly about any subject. He react when the nazi card was brought forward and the accusations of who was nazi and such lines. I tend to agree with him. But never mind that for now.

If Mr Booth asked us to start a new thread, I will oblige him right away, pardon us, and start a new thread, heading with the same question once again.