23 Jan 07
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemAmen! 🙂 Well spoken.
In all seriousness, the concept of 'purity' you have described is a crock. Lust is natural and healthy. It keeps our species alive, and provides a source of pleasure. Sex, like any other form of pleasure (eating, drinking, etc.), it can be abused, but to forbid mere thoughts and fantasies is ridiculous and clearly out-of-sync with how almost all human ...[text shortened]... ally behave. It is self-defeating to ask people to live up to a standard that no one can meet.
24 Jan 07
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhy would the New Testament writers write to their contempories outlandish things about a fictitous person mentioning in connection to him historical figures who could easily dismiss untruths?
You said:
[b]The list of people mentioned in the New Testament mentioned in non-Christian writings is used by me as supporting evidence that the gospel is not myth writing.
But how can the existence of real people in a story be supporting evidence that it is not myth writing unless you first claim that all myth writing contains no historical details?[/b]
If the gospels circulated widely that Pilate executed Jesus surely those knowing Roman politics could correct the misinformation about the existence of Jesus.
If Luke writes that Paul was examined by King Agrippa for his gospel preaching activities, those familiar with the political scene could correct Luke's fabrication, had the fact been that Jesus did not exist.
I don't think there are too many historians who dispute the existence of Jesus of Nazareth. The claims His disciples claim He made and the deeds they recorded having been performed by Him, you may disbelieve. But that He lived is not seriously questioned by most historians.
Flavius Josephus (ca. 37 - ca. 100) wrote in his Antiquities of the Jews in Book 18, chapter 3, section 3 in about A.D. 93 these words:
At this time [the time of Pilate] there was a wise man who was called Jesus, His conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.
Josephus could have written that there were disciples of this fictitous Jesus person, but actually he never existed at all. He didn't dispute his existence.
Josephus also echoes the record of the evangelist Luke that James, the brother of Jesus, was murdered by Ananus the younger, the new high priest. N. Giesler writes:
"It was A.D. 62, and the Roman governor Festus died suddenly in office. Three months elapsed before his successor, Albinus, could get to Judea, allowing ample time for Ananus to do his dirty work. Josephus discribes the incident this way:
Festus was dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he [Ananus the high priest] assembled the Sanhedrin of the judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who is called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or some of his companions], and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned.
Again the historian makes no mention that James, whoever he was, could not have been the brother of a "Jesus" who never lived in the first place.
The killing of James would make sense since the Sanhedrin was dead set against the Christian church. And James, being a brother of the "ring leader" would probably be singled out as a cuprit to continue the cult of Christians.
I spoke before of non-Christian sources which mentioned Jesus. Actually Celsus, Tacitus, and the Jewish Talmud could be considered anti-Christian sources which mentioned Jesus.
These references to Jesus were written within 150 years of His life. That is His life before His ascension ( speaking now as a believer in the gospel).
24 Jan 07
Originally posted by stockenIt is self-defeating to ask people to live up to a standard that no one can meet.
Amen! 🙂 Well spoken.
But here is where the poster errs - the New Testament is not demanding that you live up to a standard that you cannot meet.
The New Testament is teaching for you to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and your Life. Then He within you will empower you to live as a son of God.
"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" 1 Cor. 15:45
That means that Christ Jesus transfigured Himself into a form in which He can come into our being and supply us with divine resurrection life. This is the life that the disciples lived by. They lived in the realm of the resurrected Son of God. Christ was their realm and sphere within which they lived the new covenant.
"Abide in Me and I in you"
That is to be joined to Christ in His form as the life giving Spirit and allow Him to infuse your being with His sin overcoming divine life.
24 Jan 07
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywill"Be Ye therefore Perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is Perfect."
It is self-defeating to ask people to live up to a standard that no one can meet.
But here is where the poster errs - the New Testament is not demanding that you live up to a standard that you cannot meet.
[/b]
"And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
"All have sinned, and have fallen short of the glory of God."
All of these are from the New Testament.
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24 Jan 07
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem1 Corinthians 10:13
"Be Ye therefore [b]Perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is Perfect."
"And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
"All have sinned, and have fallen short of the glory of God."
All of these are from the New Testament.[/b]
There hath no temptation taken you but such that is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not suffer you be tempted above what ye are able, but will with the temptation also make a way of escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
24 Jan 07
Originally posted by dj2beckerThis is a great strategy. If someone quotes some verses that make you feel uncomfortable, just quote a different verse that you like better.
1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such that is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not suffer you be tempted above what ye are able, but will with the temptation also make a way of escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
25 Jan 07
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemThat is right. And if you study a outline of the Christian faith presented in a book like Romans you can see how each passage fits into the overall scheme of God's full salvation.
"Be Ye therefore [b]Perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is Perfect."
"And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
"All have sinned, and have fallen short of the glory of God."
All of these are from the New Testament.[/b]
You didn't know that Romans is organized presentation of the New Testament salvation?
Do you really seek to understand the Bible? Some people hunt through it to assemble reasons why they should not heed it or take it seriously.
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25 Jan 07
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemWhat are you going on about?
This is a great strategy. If someone quotes some verses that make you feel uncomfortable, just quote a different verse that you like better.
The verse I quoted was to show to you that in Christ perfection is possible.
25 Jan 07
Originally posted by jaywillClassic non-answer. I find it richly ironic that you christians who claim to have such a deep understanding of scripture always stall when asked to discuss anything specific about it.
That is right. And if you study a outline of the Christian faith presented in a book like Romans you can see how each passage fits into the overall scheme of God's full salvation.
You didn't know that Romans is organized presentation of the New Testament salvation?
Do you really seek to understand the Bible? Some people hunt through it to assemble reasons why they should not heed it or take it seriously.
I was a christian for 20+ years. I read the bible cover-to-cover numerous times. Instead of finding deeper meaning, my skepticism grew until I abandoned the faith.
25 Jan 07
Originally posted by dj2beckerIs it really possible? Since nobody has actually been perfect in the history of mankind (Jesus doesn't count, because he's allegedly a deity), it's a slim possibility at best.
What are you going on about?
The verse I quoted was to show to you that in Christ perfection is possible.
25 Jan 07
Originally posted by lucifershammerNo, it isn't. This is easily shown by the fact that the vast majority of humans believe that murder should be illegal.
Murder is natural too (especially for humans). It even helps weed out the weak from our gene pool.
Doesn't make it "healthy".
Poor analogy.
25 Jan 07
Originally posted by MarinkatombMy friend...I am a Kabbalist Master 33degree. The truth is...and I think you can handle such knowledge is that you are a spark of God. You came from the major or general source of God. And as a divine soul of light trapped in your body. YOu in your infinite nature gave yourself limitations so that you may see things in that BOxed in perspective. So that one you drop your body and return to your general source. YOu will have new knowledge which will effect the way you create in the future. I hope you can follow what I am saying this is very high sacred truth. The ones who go against light deminish that spark...when one of your sparks dont work well under a limitation you set up for it...you throw it in the fire to be destroyed...But the ones you placed your divine spark in with limitations that work...you crystaliuze and keep to stay forever and rule out in the government of the universe. You may think this is a philosophy...or just some side talking...but what I speak to you is your truth. God is omnipotent through us human beings. WE are the fruit of a very great tree. The trunk being our general part...and us in these bodies being the spark or fruit. So yes...you have the power to make yourself not exist...only god can do that and still exist on a plane unknown...and yes God can appear on a scene that he previously did not dwell. Its for knowledge that you do this...that I do this...that we do this. Sounds quite familiar yet strange dosnt it? I sense you fell that. peace my brother in the light. Kabbalist@gmail.com
I exist. The more i think about it, the more ridiculous it is. What is my purpose other than procreation and what is the point in that anyway?
Recently i have been finding this terrifying. As i think about my existence and how improbable it is, i imagine what it is not to exist also. I find this is having the effect that my consciousness splutters an ...[text shortened]... thing! Do other people feel the same way? Is this normal? It's driving me to distraction.
25 Jan 07
2 edits
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemThe vast majority of humans used to think lust was wrong as well (difficulty of legislation notwithstanding).
No, it isn't. This is easily shown by the fact that the vast majority of humans believe that murder should be illegal.
Poor analogy.
Maybe laws on murder will change some day as well.
EDIT: Besides, many cultures didn't have blanket bans on murder until relatively recently.
EDIT2: Many cultures certainly had laws against adultery and fornication.