If it's proven there's no god

Originally posted by RJHinds
Haven't you read about all the great scientists who believed in God? They did not stop their science just because they believed in God.

50 Nobel Laureates and Other Great Scientists Who Believe in God

http://nobelists.weebly.com/uploads/4/0/2/0/4020654/50-nobelists-english.pdf

They achieved what they did despite their belief in god/s, and not because of it.

I have never claimed it to be impossible for people to believe mutually incompatible
things. It is however rather unhelpful.


However if you do want to present lists of scientists who have done good science
and also believed in gods... I can present a vastly overwhelmingly larger list of the
number of times that religion has got in the way of science. Starting with the
dark ages, moving through the inquisition, and continuing right up to the modern era,
and your 'good' self.

I can almost certainly include in that list incidents where those scientists you list went
wrong because of their faith.

So perhaps it might be a bad idea to make such a bad argument to me 😉

Originally posted by googlefudge
They achieved what they did despite their belief in god/s, and not because of it.

I have never claimed it to be impossible for people to believe mutually incompatible
things. It is however rather unhelpful.


However if you do want to present lists of scientists who have done good science
and also believed in gods... I can present a vastly over ...[text shortened]... ecause of their faith.

So perhaps it might be a bad idea to make such a bad argument to me 😉

Why the theory of evolution is stupid

YouTube

Originally posted by stellspalfie
no, you didnt take part. as i pointed out at the time you questioned the premise of the hypothetical. the hypothetical state the god has been proven not to exist...if you can question this, then either it hasnt been proven (which would be in convention of the hypothetical) or you are saying that your reaction would be illogical (in that you would still ...[text shortened]... l us how it would effect your life/what would you do - if god had been proven 100% not to exist?

no, you didnt take part. as i pointed out at the time you questioned the premise of the hypothetical. the hypothetical state the god has been proven not to exist...if you can question this, then either it hasnt been proven (which would be in convention of the hypothetical) or you are saying that your reaction would be illogical (in that you would still challenge something that had been 100% proven)

In this post I will try to answer directly the OP's question.

But before I do, I repeat that someone's "proof" of something may not represent reality.

I would give the example of Ptolemy's earth centered solar system. Contrary to some assumptions Ptolemy had mathematical proofs and did not just go on a hunch.

By Copernicus's time the "proofs" of Ptolemy turned out not to represent reality of a sun centered solar system.

Now, the OP's challenge:

if you honestly want to answer the question then tell us how it would effect your life/what would you do - if god had been proven 100% not to exist?

I most likely would consider that it was the best way I could have possibly lived, regardless - ie. believing the Bible. I would have to be shown along with someone's proof, that they had a better way to live.

Does this answer your question ?

I mean, I would have NO appetite to return to the kind of life I had as a wandering deistic agnostic / or self worshipper I previously embraced. YUK!! in the extreme.

So I don't know what I would do. I don't think ANYTHING appetizing about my life as an unbeliever in Christ would somehow beckon me to return, having received proof of God's non-existence.

That's the most honest answer I can give you on this flighty hypothetical.
I'll let you know if it ever happens.

But the belief in God has been life changing to me.
And returning to the vomit of living as an unbeliever has exactly zero appeal. And this is one reason why it is so difficult to assume someone will come up with proof of atheism.

I guess another way of phrasing this is "Of what advantage does NOT being a follower Jesus Christ have over believing in Him?"

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] no, you didnt take part. as i pointed out at the time you questioned the premise of the hypothetical. the hypothetical state the god has been proven not to exist...if you can question this, then either it hasnt been proven (which would be in convention of the hypothetical) or you are saying that your reaction would be illogical (in that you would sti ...[text shortened]... g this is "Of what advantage does NOT being a follower Jesus Christ have over believing in Him?"

its not a bad attempt, i commend you for having a go. i have a few questions (remaining in the hypothetical non-god world) if i may?

you answer was mainly written in the past tense, reflecting on how you would feel about your life before finding out god did not exist. how do you think it would effect your life going forward? would you still go to church? would you still pray? what aspects of your religion would you discard, what would you keep?


And returning to the vomit of living as an unbeliever has exactly zero appeal.

are you referring to your own personal life or are all atheists lives 'vomit'?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why the theory of evolution is stupid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMGk-IphbVU

No, I'm sorry, the level of stupidity and sheer number of lies per minute in that
video is too high for me to make it.

I cannot express on this forum how truly awful that video is, because it requires
using just about every single rude word and insult ever invented by humans.

The very moment he moves on from anything other than his intentions [and I am not
even sure about them] he starts lying at a prolific rate.

If he is your source of information then just about EVERYTHING you think you know is false.

Originally posted by googlefudge
No, I'm sorry, the level of stupidity and sheer number of lies per minute in that
video is too high for me to make it.

I cannot express on this forum how truly awful that video is, because it requires
using just about every single rude word and insult ever invented by humans.

The very moment he moves on from anything other than his intentions [ ...[text shortened]... .

If he is your source of information then just about EVERYTHING you think you know is false.

The lies I heard were from the evolutionists. He just brought attention to them as lies. Is it offensive to you that he makes those lies known? 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
The lies I heard were from the evolutionists. He just brought attention to them as lies. Is it offensive to you that he makes those lies known? 😏

No, those video's are offensive because they are BULLSHYTE. Pure unadulterated BULLSHYTE refuted time and time again but the BULLSHTYE just keeps floating to the surface, just like BULLSHYTE always is.

Originally posted by sonhouse
No, those video's are offensive because they are BULLSHYTE. Pure unadulterated BULLSHYTE refuted time and time again but the BULLSHTYE just keeps floating to the surface, just like BULLSHYTE always is.

How do you know that it is BULLSHYTE?

Originally posted by RJHinds
How do you know that it is BULLSHYTE?

Because all their BULLSHYTE is just paved over repeats of what has been refuted a hundred times over and now REAL scientists don't have to bother with these jokers, these pathetic caricatures of scientists who have given up the right to be called scientists decades ago, calling up repeatedly such old hoaxes as Piltdown man and such, crap from 30,40, 100 or more years ago AS IF THEY WERE BRAND NEW.

You yourself have done it repeatedly here. You are a caricature of a human being.

Originally posted by vivify
If it could actually be proven that the Christian god doesn't exist, how would that change your life, if you're a Christian? Is this something any of you here have given real thought to?

Assume for this thread that this hypothetical really happened; if (somehow) proof was given that even Christians here HAD to admit that God doesn't exist, here are my que ...[text shortened]... Do you think you could realistically fall into a serious depression? Would you feel anger?

It has been my experience that proofs of the existence of God tend to be persuasive only to people who already believed in God prior to having heard such proofs. The devout Christians I know base their faith on personal experiences, not on intellectual proofs. They may seek intellectual arguments in support of their faith after having accepted the faith but will persist in keeping the faith even if those arguments are later shown to be flawed.

So it seems to me that, if there were a conclusive proof of God's non-existence, it would not necessarily lead a devout person to abandon his faith, since intellectual proofs were not the original grounds for adopting the faith.

There's no point in arguing with a person for whom proofs are accetpable only up to the point where the putative conclusion clashes with dogma and then he dismisses the proof as invalid because he does not agree with its putative conclusion. If one is going to entertain proofs of God's existence or non-existence, even hypothetically as an exercise in logic, then one has to allow for potentially disagreeable conclusions. A disagreeable conclusion would not require one to abandon one's faith; it would require one to admit that one's faith is not reason-based.

I can respect a person whose faith is based on unshakeable personal experience. I have myself had such experiences--they did not fit Christian dogma and so did not lead me to embrace that particular religion.

Arguments for the existence or non-existence of God tend to be inconclusive, rather than outright fallacious. Either they prove too much or too little. For example, it is possible that something (we know not what) initiated the Big Bang, an unmoved mover (granted that "before time got started" is a meaningless phrase), but it does not follow from that that such a 'being' (or whatever) must be identical with the God of Abraham--it could have been an amoral 'Watchmaker' who/which wound up the universe and went away, leaving it to just run down, eventually to die a cold, dispersed entropy-death.


EDIT: I can imagine a person finding it more annoying, than devastating or frightening, that there could be a conclusive proof of the non-existence of God.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Because all their BULLSHYTE is just paved over repeats of what has been refuted a hundred times over and now REAL scientists don't have to bother with these jokers, these pathetic caricatures of scientists who have given up the right to be called scientists decades ago, calling up repeatedly such old hoaxes as Piltdown man and such, crap from 30,40, 100 or ...[text shortened]... BRAND NEW.

You yourself have done it repeatedly here. You are a caricature of a human being.

The truth I repeat on evolution hoaxes is just to inform those that are not aware of the many frauds attempted by atheist evolutionists in the past.

Originally posted by vivify
If it could actually be proven that the Christian god doesn't exist, how would that change your life, if you're a Christian? Is this something any of you here have given real thought to?

Assume for this thread that this hypothetical really happened; if (somehow) proof was given that even Christians here HAD to admit that God doesn't exist, here are my que ...[text shortened]... d appreciate thoughts from Christians (or other theists with the question applied to their god).

Why ask Christians? Ask Atheists, some of them claim that actually happen
to them.

For me it was the other way around.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] no, you didnt take part. as i pointed out at the time you questioned the premise of the hypothetical. the hypothetical state the god has been proven not to exist...if you can question this, then either it hasnt been proven (which would be in convention of the hypothetical) or you are saying that your reaction would be illogical (in that you would sti ...[text shortened]... g this is "Of what advantage does NOT being a follower Jesus Christ have over believing in Him?"

And it only took you eight pages of posts to answer the OP.