if there is intelligent design ....

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If there is intelligent design:

After careful consideration to the title of this thread, i have come to the conclusion that there is not even intelligent design in my living room.

Seriously, what was i thinking...

If there is intelligent design, it appears to be patchy at best.

And for all the creatures upon which sharks prey, the 'design' of sharks appears diabolic.

Originally posted by moonbus
If there is intelligent design, it appears to be patchy at best.

And for all the creatures upon which sharks prey, the 'design' of sharks appears diabolic.

Coincidentally, the design of my living room is also patchy and diabolical.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Coincidentally, the design of my living room is also patchy and diabolical.

I would suggest that you blame the Architect.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
I would suggest that you blame the Architect.

If by 'Architect' you mean God, i don't think in good conscience i can blame him for my purple wallpaper.

Truth be told,.....i blame Hinds. (For everything!)

Originally posted by sonhouse
So, right there, the bible is lying. Vegan's are not weak, they actually have more nutritional acumen than meat eaters and I can say for certain they get all the protein and other nutrients they need. So your bible, once again, is lying.

It says, "He who is weak eats vegetables only." It doesn't say, "He who eats vegetables only is weak." So it's not lying. Learn to read. Don't take stuff out of context.

Originally posted by moonbus
If there is intelligent design, it appears to be patchy at best.

And for all the creatures upon which sharks prey, the 'design' of sharks appears diabolic.

Intelligent design is not an "in your face" type of intelligent design in order to preserve free will. If intelligent design were any more blatant, it would be like God coming on the evening news and saying "I exist, so better crack open that bible and get with the program, kiddies!"

Proof of God denies free will. People must be free to perform any kind of mental gymnastics they want, and explain it away any way they want, in order to freely deny God. God must be approached purely through faith. Proof of God seriously mucks that up.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
I would suggest that you blame the Architect.

Or IKEA.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Intelligent design is not an "in your face" type of intelligent design in order to preserve free will. If intelligent design were any more blatant, it would be like God coming on the evening news and saying "I exist, so better crack open that bible and get with the program, kiddies!"

Proof of God denies free will. People must be free to perform any kin ...[text shortened]... y deny God. God must be approached purely through faith. Proof of God seriously mucks that up.

Has God ever given proof of his existence to a man, and if so, has he mucked up that individual's free will?

(I'm in that kind of mood suddenly).

Originally posted by Suzianne
Intelligent design is not an "in your face" type of intelligent design in order to preserve free will. If intelligent design were any more blatant, it would be like God coming on the evening news and saying "I exist, so better crack open that bible and get with the program, kiddies!"

Proof of God denies free will. People must be free to perform any kin ...[text shortened]... y deny God. God must be approached purely through faith. Proof of God seriously mucks that up.

Interesting line of thought. Pursuing it further .... God must have valued human freedom more than He valued that all humans should arrive at the same pre-determined conclusion, for, if God had valued the latter more, He would not have given mankind such a degree of freedom.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Has God ever given proof of his existence to a man, and if so, has he mucked up that individual's free will?

(I'm in that kind of mood suddenly).

Well sure, but those he has manifested to were already believers, their choice was already made through faith. Their free will choice was not hampered, it had already been made.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well sure, but those he has manifested to were already believers, their choice was already made through faith. Their free will choice was not hampered, it had already been made.

As has been demonstrated many times.

Belief in the existence of god is not what is required, but worship of god.

As it's evidently possible to know god exists and not worship god [indeed your own
mythology includes characters who know god exists and yet rebel against him] it
cannot be true that mere evidence for god would compel anyone to believe in the
existence of god, let alone compel them to worship said god.

Indeed, as I have said many times, I wouldn't worship your god even if you could prove
it existed to my satisfaction. I would declare war on your god.

Given that fact [plus the fact that the kind of free will your religion and argument requires is
logically incoherent and demonstrably factually non-existent anyway] your argument that
evidence for your gods existence [of any form] would invalidate our [non-existent] free will
and thus your argument is invalid.

Evidence for your god would not, and indeed cannot be said to violate our free will.

The lack of evidence for either your god, or any kind of intelligent design, IS however evidence that
your god doesn't exist and that there has been no intelligent design.


It is also immoral in the extreme to require people to believe in your existence AND worship you
despite the fact that you have ensured that they have no rational reason to do so AFTER giving
the said people reason. [as per your mythology].

So your argument is simultaneously wrong, nonsensical, and immoral.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Coincidentally, the design of my living room is also patchy and diabolical.

It wasn't Intelligently Designed then! 😛

Originally posted by Suzianne
Intelligent design is not an "in your face" type of intelligent design in order to preserve free will. If intelligent design were any more blatant, it would be like God coming on the evening news and saying "I exist, so better crack open that bible and get with the program, kiddies!"

Proof of God denies free will. People must be free to perform any kin ...[text shortened]... y deny God. God must be approached purely through faith. Proof of God seriously mucks that up.

"I exist, so better crack open that bible and get with the program, kiddies!"

A god says that and somehow I lose freewill?

Originally posted by moonbus
Or IKEA.

I like IKEA 🙂

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Has God ever given proof of his existence to a man, and if so, has he mucked up that individual's free will?

(I'm in that kind of mood suddenly).

Does it count He became a man so we could see Him in terms we understood?