Originally posted by @wolfgang59Sex between a man and woman has a higher purpose (procreation.)
Which gives morons the opportunity to cop out of having to think
for themselves so that they have plenty of time for goat-herding.
Wake up![/b]
Sex between two men or two women does not.
Come on, Sparky. Use your head for something other than a place to put your hat.
Originally posted by @wolfgang59What’s nonsense is you trying to get that hamster back on its wheel inside your noggin. I can see the smoke coming out of your ears from here.
We all have different moralities and I accept some think homosexuality
is immoral.But surely this discussion is about arguing why or why not
homosexuality is immoral from an objective position? And saying
"Because god says so" holds as much sway with me as me saying to
you "The Tooth Fairy says it's OK" Your god may as well say something
random like "Wearing shoes is immoral or eating pork". It's nonsense.
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Originally posted by @fmfSo you would be ok with having sex with animals as long as there is no coercion?
Having homosexual sex with someone using coercion or without informed consent would be immoral to my way of thinking. As for pedophiles, I am not particularly interested in what thoughtcrimes they have because of their "sense of sexuality"; I see morality as governing action, interaction, and behaviour. I see sexual acts against children as immoral as they invo ...[text shortened]... er it a form of coercion too. Does your Bible tell you how young a child you can have sex with?.
Originally posted by @secondsonBesides your religious beliefs, what is the moral justification for these assertions?
The homosexual agenda, and all the attendant rhetoric notwithstanding, homosexuality is immoral and perverse.
Originally posted by @secondsonI am not religious. Do you have any non-religious arguments about the morality of homosexuality?
Light dispels darkness. Morality is understood in the light. Darkness cannot comprehend the light. The Word is light. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the light of men.
The offer is the light. Spiritual, God given light. Clear, unequivocal instruction. One man. One woman. A lifetime of a monogamous heterosexual relationship.
Originally posted by @fmfFMF, after I made a series of arguments that showed why it is logical to believe homosexuality is immoral, you said the above.
Morality is inherently subjective and contextual.
It was sort of the end of our exchanges. You didn't want to actually deal with the things that I had stated in my argument, fo rwhatever reason, and I thought, wow, this was a nice 'cut your losses' moment from FMF and other things are happening in the thread, so why not let sleeping dogs lie?
Would you like to let sleepign dogs lie?
Originally posted by @philokaliaI think you have made some assertions illustrating what you don't like about it or things that worry you. I don't see any moral arguments from you other than of the religious kind which are no use to me.
FMF, after I made a series of arguments that showed why it is logical to believe homosexuality is immoral, you said the above.
FMF et al,
The idea is extremely straight forward.
Morality is not measured solely by whether or not it harms someone directly, because in that way, it is impossible to actually really come to significant conclusions beyond the most obvious ones. It does not include other scenarios very well.
For instance, drug addicts, gamblers, alcoholics, whoremongers, prostitutes, etc., systematically are destroying their lives all across the world without indirectly hurting anyone else. Families are shattered and communities rendered asunder, but by the simplistic morality of the times, it's their body, it's their choice.
I am not going to say that being a monogamous homosexual is on the same level as being a 21 year old meth addict throwing her life away and turning into a prostitute on the streets. Of course, the latter is far worst.
Yet, what kind of morality exists that systematically brushes away people's vices as irrelevant? Sure, I totally understand how it is not my business to lecture the high functioning drunk 22 year old getting through his college courses and having promiscuous sex. It is his life. I am disinterested in making up some futile law to police him and people like him. I am merely insisting that this is not moral, and not hte right way to live.
... Thus, as Christians, we know what a healthy sexual relationship is.
The healthiest sexual relationship in the world is a monogamous man & woman married to one another.
The healthiest lifestyle in the world for every person is being a productive worker and a husband or wife; no substance abuse; honest, hard work; good, clean fun; productive hobbies; big families with lots of love and connections to one another. Patience, charity, kindness, moderation, temperance.
All of these things are totally relevant fo ra holistic concept of what is moral.
And, as shown by the very nature of man's sexual organs and by the most successful way of child rearing, monogamous heterosexual marriage is unquestionably the best. The male & woman were made to have a sexual union with each other; even if you do not believe in God, it is clear that the sexual reproductive units of a man and a woman are meant for each other.
And when do children grow up to be happiest and healthiest? When they have a committed male and female role model in the house.
Originally posted by @philokaliaI have talked about ways in which immoral things can and are done by homosexuals and I think we can agree on those things. But you haven't really given me anything on homosexuality being inmoral in and of itself.
Would you like to let sleepign dogs lie?
FMF, you can suck the total context out of everything and just try to understand things in absolutely sterile words without a gestalt, but as Becker points out, you become incapable of saying the most obviously dsigusting & horrific things, like bestiality, are wrong.
"It's just two men doing what they want with each other,"
can easily become,
"It's just a woman and a dog doing what they want with each other."
Sure, on the one hand, a 48 year old man who thinks he is a 12 year old girl and roleplays as one, watches children shows, and has bizarre relations with two other adult men he refers to as 'daddy' is just a trio of people doiong what they want and harming no one else.
But nothing about this is remotely right.
And no, this isn't just "hang ups."
Come on, man. If everyone behaved this way, society would be collapsing. That's why it is wrong just from a pragmatic perspective.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerWe discussed it before, more than once, one occasion being when you were posting as Fetchmyjunk. My moral reasoning on the issue has not changed.
Do you have any non-religious arguments about the morality of bestiality?
Originally posted by @philokaliaOf course bestiality is wrong. What on earth are you on about?
FMF, you can suck the total context out of everything and just try to understand things in absolutely sterile words without a gestalt, but as Becker points out, you become incapable of saying the most obviously dsigusting & horrific things, like bestiality, are wrong.
Originally posted by @philokaliaYou mean if everyone was homosexual?
Come on, man. If everyone behaved this way, society would be collapsing. That's why it is wrong just from a pragmatic perspective.
Originally posted by @philokaliaWhat on earth are you on about now?
It's just a woman and a dog doing what they want with each other.