09 Oct 13
Originally posted by sonshipThere are so many flaws in that post its not possible to help people like you .. you just too far out into the woods. But just one I will tell you:
Pugnik,
Sonship, i read your arguement with Rajk999. i'm sure you mean well, but you fail on a couple of points.
Maybe I did. But maybe because the writing was not more exhaustive you misunderstand something which I could elaborate on.
[quote]
First, "Eternal life is recieved by believing". Well think about this, are you stat ...[text shortened]... N of God.
I have written many many posts on other important aspects of the Christian life.
You said : It is about God dispensing His eternal life and divine nature INTO His redeemed people.
For you those who accept Christ with their mouth = Gods redeemed people.
That is wrong. Using Romans 10:9 cannot begin to spell out who are Gods redeemed people.
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09 Oct 13
There are so many flaws in that post its not possible to help people like you .. you just too far out into the woods. But just one I will tell you:
Okay. Tell me about "just one." No problem.
You said : It is about God dispensing His eternal life and divine nature INTO His redeemed people.
Yes, I did say that. I still say that. Do you have a major problem with that ?
For you those who accept Christ with their mouth = Gods redeemed people.
Once again (you did this before), the passage I quoted says " ... confess with your mouth that Jesus as Lord AND ... BELIEVE ... IN ... YOUR .... HEART .. that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. "
That is wrong. Using Romans 10:9 cannot begin to spell out who are Gods redeemed people.
You know that Bible says "The factious man after the first and second admonition, refuse." (Titus 3:10)
I replied to you the first, second, third, and more times on this. You're welcomed to have another opinion if you wish.
I will continue to teach - Romans chapter 10 in its entirety - the whole chapter as it is written.
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09 Oct 13
Originally posted by Rajk999I think you are still living under the Law. You say you follow Christ but in reality you do not obey what he has already commanded.
There are so many flaws in that post its not possible to help people like you .. you just too far out into the woods. But just one I will tell you:
You said : It is about God dispensing His eternal life and divine nature INTO His redeemed people.
For you those who accept Christ with their mouth = Gods redeemed people.
That is wrong. Using Romans 10:9 cannot begin to spell out who are Gods redeemed people.
You live in fear, like God is holding a hammer over your head to smack you the minute you step out of line.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterI have made no comment about how anyone lives. I dont not know how you live , or how KJ lives or Sonship; neither x or y or z. or whether or not you people follow the commandments of Christ.
I think you are still living under the Law. You say you follow Christ but in reality you do not obey what he has already commanded.
You live in fear, like God is holding a hammer over your head to smack you the minute you step out of line.
I do not know and and I do not care to know becuase whether or not you follow Christ commandments is between youall and Christ. That is none of my concern.
Clearly you know how I live and whether I live under the Law or follow Christ commandments. You must be really gifted .. lucky you.
What I do know is that I follow the commandments of Christ . I know that that is what counts in the day of judgment. How I know that? Christ said so. So you go your merry way believing what you like. I will follow Christ.
Maybe you think that people who preach false doctrines like sonship is doing deserves love and respect like if he was my brother. He is not. A brother in Christ preaches love. He preaches mouth worship. If you fall for his speeches and explanations then thats your loss .. I pity those like you who are unable to think clearly about what Christ said and get carried away with fallible men and their sweet words.
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09 Oct 13
Originally posted by Rajk999The reason I say what I said is according to what you write. You seem to have a veil over your eyes(understanding) concerning the risen Christ.
I have made no comment about how anyone lives. I dont not know how you live , or how KJ lives or Sonship; neither x or y or z. or whether or not you people follow the commandments of Christ.
I do not know and and I do not care to know becuase whether or not you follow Christ commandments is between youall and Christ. That is none of my concern.
Clearl ...[text shortened]... ink clearly about what Christ said and get carried away with fallible men and their sweet words.
You do not seem to know what he has accomplished on yours and my behalf.
I am not saying this to condemn you, but rather out of love.
If you understand what the Law was for, then you would realize how much we needed a Savior.
The Law was instituted to show how deadly sin really is, but even more so, it was introduced to condemn you and me. It was introduced to destroy us, and drive us to ask for mercy which God provided in Jesus Christ.
Rom 6:15-17
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17
NKJV
Rom 7:7-12
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
NKJV
Sin is deadly but we are no longer under Law. There is no more sin imputed to the Christian.
Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
NKJV
Rom 3:21-22
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.
NKJV
Rom 4:14-15
For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
NKJV
These are very clear verses. There is no Law. We could never live up to the Law. The Law revealed that we cannot stand on self righteousness. It brought us to Christ! Praise God!
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterWell clearly you think Christ's law of love does not apply and you can now follow no law whatsoever.
The reason I say what I said is according to what you write. You seem to have a veil over your eyes(understanding) concerning the risen Christ.
You do not seem to know what he has accomplished on yours and my behalf.
I am not saying this to condemn you, but rather out of love.
If you understand what the Law was for, then you would realize how m ...[text shortened]... he Law revealed that we cannot stand on self righteousness. It brought us to Christ! Praise God!
Well good luck to you. Nothing to discuss again.
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09 Oct 13
You say, and others as well, that if we continue in sin we are condemned.
What that is saying is that we are now repairing the temple that was rent...
Luke 23:45
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
KJV
Here is my point..When we learn what Jesus has accomplished on our behalf, we are freed. God is not angry with us. He is not waiting for us to make a mistake so he can condemn us. Our sins have been paid for.
Now you mentioned love, I agree. Faith works by love...
Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
NKJV
When I love Jesus even more for giving me freedom from the Law, for paying the price for my sins past, present and future, it drives me to love him even more. My faith grows more and more. I live for him, not to sin.
Why would I want to sin? Why would I want to hurt the Lord by sinning?
It does not make sense.
You mention people who think they have freedom to commit all kinds of atrocities to sin and still have eternal life.
How can this be? Do you really believe anyone with that mindset ever believed with their heart? I don't think so. I think they are still living in sin..
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterThere are several laws:
So, you think this is talking about Christians?
- Law of Moses
- Law of Christ
- Other
There are several ways to live :
- by the flesh
- by the spirit
Those who follow any law can either live by the spirit [led by God] or live by the flesh [carnal minded people].
Personally I try to live by the Law of Christ and be led by the Spirit. That me. I know that I will have to account for my shortfalls on the day of judgment .. I can handle that.
You live how you choose.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by Rajk999Gentlemen! Please! Maybe we should just play chess. We could debate till the cows come home. Sonship is hellbent on his beliefs, as are we all.
I have made no comment about how anyone lives. I dont not know how you live , or how KJ lives or Sonship; neither x or y or z. or whether or not you people follow the commandments of Christ.
I do not know and and I do not care to know becuase whether or not you follow Christ commandments is between youall and Christ. That is none of my concern.
Clearl ...[text shortened]... ink clearly about what Christ said and get carried away with fallible men and their sweet words.
Sonship, you elaborate way too much, and nearly loose me trying to follow your thoughts.
And myself, i like to strir up the world with thoughts, outside the box.
Rajk999, i know these comments, these arguements can be frustrating at times. But I am surprized by your comments here. "That is none of my concern". Jesus teaches us to be like Him. That means to care, and care deeply for your brothers, Sonship, Sonhouse and all the others. Pray, Pray, Pray. My friend, let prayer and love flow though you and into these words. I spoke to a preacher yesterday who stated we can not go outside of ourselves, our being. He is a young preacher, but he thinks in a box. The love of Christ reaches around the world and though the world. There is no end to it, so to we, who profess to walk in Him must learn to allow Jesus love to pass though us. To become the vessel of living waters.
If we can learn to do this, it is not we anymore, but Christ who lives in us.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou keep saying this about yourself. Are you really trying to use your personal disposition as proof that the hundreds of millions of Christians do not commit atrocious sins that quite likely would not attract forgiveness?
You say, and others as well, that if we continue in sin we are condemned.
What that is saying is that we are now repairing the temple that was rent...
[b]
Luke 23:45
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
KJV
Here is my point..When we learn what Jesus has accomplished on our behalf, we are freed. Go ...[text shortened]... mindset ever believed with their heart? I don't think so. I think they are still living in sin..[/b]
The Bible says clearly not all will be forgiven.
Anyway this getting tiresome. I will stick to what I believe and follow to to best of my ability the commandments of Christ while keeping away from what I consider to satanic teachings of the 'sonship' type.
I would not be posting on this topic again . Good luck to you.
09 Oct 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Pudgenik'I dont care about who sins' means that - Peoples sins are their private concern ie between them and God/Christ. I dont want anyone thinking that I am accusing them of sinning .. I dont that on an internet forum.
Gentlemen! Please! Maybe we should just play chess. We could debate till the cows come home. Sonship is hellbent on his beliefs, as are we all.
Sonship, you elaborate way too much, and nearly loose me trying to follow your thoughts.
And myself, i like to strir up the world with thoughts, outside the box.
Rajk999, i know these comments, these arguement ...[text shortened]... of living waters.
If we can learn to do this, it is not we anymore, but Christ who lives in us.
I can only try to tell people that sin is not something Christ wants. But clearly here you are reading for yourself that these Christians believe that they can sin and Christ death paid for all their sins - past, present and future. They claim that they wont have to account for any sin.
09 Oct 13
Originally posted by Rajk999So do you accept that people sin after they become Christian and that they
'I dont care about who sins' means that - Peoples sins are their private concern ie between them and God/Christ. I dont want anyone thinking that I am accusing them of sinning .. I dont that on an internet forum.
I can only try to tell people that sin is not something Christ wants. But clearly here you are reading for yourself that these Christians beli ...[text shortened]... ll their sins - past, present and future. They claim that they wont have to account for any sin.
need God's help for that? Do you believe they will not sin after they become
Christian?
Kelly