Is Salvation a free gift?

Originally posted by yo its me
Not all Christans beleive in Hell as a place, some beleive it to be the absence of God.

Kinda like Earth?

Originally posted by yo its me
Not all Christans beleive in Hell as a place, some beleive it to be the absence of God.

Some believe that Hell is the presence of God.

Originally posted by WWindmill
Some believe that Hell is the presence of God.

There it is again! An almost opinion! An almost thought! Alas, but no - please try again.

Ill give you an opion.

Christianity is a group of people who think too highly of themselves and think along the same lines as Hitler in their superority.. being better then others. Christians follow a man whose writings are lies and exagerations of the truth and to justify what is crap they look to the word faith.

Originally posted by WWindmill
Christians follow a man whose writings are lies and exagerations of the truth and to justify what is crap they look to the word faith.

Which man did you have in mind?

Originally posted by muppyman
But why would such a good father create Hell in the first place?

Hell is the domian of the enemy (satan) , so God seems to have allowed himself to be opposed spiritually. As to whether he created hell I don't know. I think hell is an absence of God , if a man is determined to not be with God then he will be in a form of hell anyway because he is depriving himself of the only happiness possible to him.

If God guarantees that no man shall ever spend eternity without him then he either has to create robots who can't choose or take away someone's freedom to make them a conscript in heaven. However, if he did that it's hard to see how they could be happy because heaven is ultimately as state of mind as well as a place.

I agree that these are difficult issues but try and understand that God is trying to create real free sentient beings who can really choose. My view is that if he does that then there is a risk of things going wrong.

Originally posted by muppyman
Thanks for the correction, the text just happened to cross my bow once many many decades ago, so was not deeply etched upon the fleshy tablets of my heart. Proves that I don't know one OT book from another. 🙂

You are welcome :-)

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Which man did you have in mind?

Take your pick.

Originally posted by WWindmill
Take your pick.

What do you mean "take your pick"? I'm not a mind reader.

You said:
"Christians follow a man whose writings are lies and exagerations of the truth and to justify what is crap they look to the word faith."

Did you mean Jesus or someone else?

Originally posted by Badwater
This is the only attempt you try to make to come up with words or ministry of Jesus. Sadly, this verse is taken completely out of context; this verse is from a long conversational narrative that Jesus has with his disciples. In context, he has just talked quite gloomily about his death and washed the disciples' feet, then foretold his betrayal and that Pete t salvation is freely given - and freely taken. And you can take him at his word - or not.

Remember when Jesus came to gather his disciples? Jesus told them to fallow him and they didn't think they were worthy. They didn't 'choose' to fallow him, they fallowed because Jesus told them to. If it were up to them they would not have.

Jesus had shown how salvation was of Christ and not of us when he rised Lazarus from the dead. He was showing that we are spiritually dead in sin and only He could quicken us from that death, a dead man can not rise himself.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

It is written that none seeketh after God? If this is true then it denotes your free will.

Tell me Badwater, where would these verses fit in with your free will?

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

2Th 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Job 11:10 If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder him?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
What do you mean "take your pick"? I'm not a mind reader.

You said:
"Christians follow [b]a man whose writings are lies and exagerations of the truth and to justify what is crap they look to the word faith."

Did you mean Jesus or someone else?[/b]

I meant Jesus but you can pick any of the many other people in it if you want cause the whole book is crap.

Originally posted by WWindmill
I meant Jesus but you can pick any of the many other people in it if you want cause the whole book is crap.

First of all, you should understand that Jesus didn't write anything in the Bible.

Which of the teachings of Jesus did you find to be "crap"?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
First of all, you should understand that Jesus didn't write anything in the Bible.

Which of the teachings of Jesus did you find to be "crap"?

The writtings of Jesus are found from Matthew through to John. That was what was written about his life on earth which are lies.

Originally posted by WWindmill
The writtings of Jesus are found from Matthew through to John. That was what was written about his life on earth which are lies.

Thing were written about Jesus and words were attributed to him, but Jesus didn't write any of the Bible.

Which of the teachings of Jesus were "crap"?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Which of the teachings of Jesus did you find to be "crap"?

O.K. What about when he went to a wedding only to discover that they were out of wine and then he turned the water into wine. Do you really believe that? Ummm.. feeding hundreds of people with a couple of fish and loaves of bred. Freeing a demon possed man from his evil spirits and sending them into a herd of pigs who ran off a cliff to their deaths. Hell.. there are a lot of lies when it comes to Jebus life. What about raising himself from the dead or other people or stopping a women's period. Where do I begin... Really!?