Is Salvation a free gift?

Originally posted by pritybetta
The gift is free in the sense that we do not do anything in order to get it. We can not buy our salvation nor can we do anything in order to obtain salvation. The gift is for the Lord's elect, not everyone. Christ payed the price for the salvation of his elect.

Here is a verse that is widely used to get people to think they have to "accept" Christ in o ...[text shortened]... ccording to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Evidently, spelling ability is not one of the fruits of the spirit, but self-satisfaction is.

Originally posted by knightmeister
bait not taken.....

Just like the parts of the bible you don't like.

Originally posted by pritybetta
The gift is free in the sense that we do not do anything in order to get it. We can not buy our salvation nor can we do anything in order to obtain salvation. The gift is for the Lord's elect, not everyone. Christ payed the price for the salvation of his elect.

Here is a verse that is widely used to get people to think they have to "accept" Christ in o ...[text shortened]... ccording to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

"The gift is for the Lord's elect, not everyone. "

The gift is for who so ever will come to God's call, that is everyone!
Those that do will be the Lord's elect, those that do not will be
left wanting as they lives can only fall short of what is required. All
can be saved, God wants everyone to be saved, but not everyone
will be, not everyones wants it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
"The gift is for the Lord's elect, not everyone. "

The gift is for who so ever will come to God's call, that is everyone!
Those that do will be the Lord's elect, those that do not will be
left wanting as they lives can only fall short of what is required. All
can be saved, God wants everyone to be saved, but not everyone
will be, not everyones wants it.
Kelly

What do you believe is the minimum requirement for one to be saved?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
What do you believe is the minimum requirement for one to be saved?

Think about what the term "saved" actually means.

If a man is being saved by someone else (eg - a helicopter rescue) then the minimum requirement is that he allows himself to be saved and puts the belt (or whatever it is called) around his waist and lets himself be hauled up to the helicopter.

If his pride or ego gets in the way he will start becoming too helpful and think he has to "do" something to please the pilot or something , whereas all he actually has to do is just allow himself to be rescued. The thing about being saved is that is so easy it's actually hard. We just don't know how to accept a free gift. We think we must climb the rope by our own "efforts" without realising that the helicopter could fly off at any moment and we are entirely reliant on it.

We cannot attain the level of holiness required to meet God's standards and God's righteousness by our own "efforts" , only God can achieve this in us by grace (with our co-operation) . Just think for a minute. Everything you have is given to you by God. The whole universe is a gift. You cannot even attempt to become righteous unless you are empowered by God.

The standard neccessary has been met in Jesus. Our job is to receive that gift , but it is an offence to our pride. We don't like the idea that some murderer can be saved because it offends our sense of justice and our system of rewards. Like the prodigal son's brother , we just don't get it.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Thats streatching logic a bit.
Odd that throughout the centuaries most people have been able to interpret it as 'world' without seeing any contradiction.

That is the problem. They interpret it as 'world' as in everyone blindly. They don't take the time to study it in it's original language. Or they blindly accept what others teach them without studying it themselves.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
This post and your previous post appear to be at odds. On the one hand you seem to be advocating the idea that it's not necessary to overcome sin for salvation and yet you also seem to recognize that one must "doeth the will of my Father" and that one can be judged by his fruits.

Matthew 7:17-18
"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree ...[text shortened]... will of my Father" include acts of sin? Is an act of sin "good fruit" or "bad fruit".

Have you ever read where Paul talks about the war with the flesh and spirit?

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This does not give us the right to just sin when we want. If someone sins knowingly, you have to ask yourself was they even saved in the first place. However, if a saved person sins it is not the spirit in him that is doing it, it is his worldly flesh. Christ is the one who overcomes the sin, not us. We can do nothing with out Him. Or sinful nature does not alow it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"The gift is for the Lord's elect, not everyone. "

The gift is for who so ever will come to God's call, that is everyone!
Those that do will be the Lord's elect, those that do not will be
left wanting as they lives can only fall short of what is required. All
can be saved, God wants everyone to be saved, but not everyone
will be, not everyones wants it.
Kelly

No, all can not be saved. If the Lord wanted everyone to be saved then they would be, "who can hinder him?"

Job 9:12 Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?

Job 11:10 If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder him?

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on
whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my
power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mery

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
What do you believe is the minimum requirement for one to be saved?

The only requirement to be saved is what the Lord does. We can do nothing to be saved as I have said before.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Think about what the term "saved" actually means.

If a man is being saved by someone else (eg - a helicopter rescue) then the minimum requirement is that he allows himself to be saved and puts the belt (or whatever it is called) around his waist and lets himself be hauled up to the helicopter.

If his pride or ego gets in the way he will start b ...[text shortened]... nd our system of rewards. Like the prodigal son's brother , we just don't get it.

"only God can achieve this in us by grace (with our co-operation)"

Can you give some scripture to prove this? If it required our co-operation, then salvation is not of the Lord only and we have to do something. And the Lord is clear that it is not by our works that we are saved.

Prity, you seem to only want to quote Pauline letters, in keeping with Pauline Christology. Iraneaus would be proud. If you have no idea what I'm talking about then some seminary training might be in order before you start interpreting NT passages.

Originally posted by pritybetta
"only God can achieve this in us by grace (with our co-operation)"

Can you give some scripture to prove this? If it required our co-operation, then salvation is not of the Lord only and we have to do something. And the Lord is clear that it is not by our works that we are saved.

It's simple , God cannot save someone who does not want to be saved. We have to be humble enough to receive it. No Doctor can save a man who fights against his treatments.

In one sense , it looks as if we have to "do" something (ie cooperate) but in another it's more a case of allowing God to get on with it.

St Paul talks about us being "co-creators" with God and "working out " our salvation. The difficult bit is letting God do his bit and for us to focus on our bit.

Originally posted by pritybetta
"... If it required our co-operation, then salvation is not of the Lord only and we have to do something. And the Lord is clear that it is not by our works that we are saved.

On the contrary. The message of the entirety of the ministy of Jesus the Nazarene is that salvation is open to all. To choose to seize, to engage in that covenant with God; that is your right no matter who you are, and is central to his message of salvation. It's too bad that the self-righteous such as yourself would pervert that ministry by attempting to close that choice of salvation to others. Fortunately, your words are empty and meaningless and have no bearing on my or any other person's choice of salvation.

Originally posted by pritybetta
The gift is free in the sense that we do not do anything in order to get it. We can not buy our salvation nor can we do anything in order to obtain salvation. The gift is for the Lord's elect, not everyone. Christ payed the price for the salvation of his elect.

Here is a verse that is widely used to get people to think they have to "accept" Christ in o ...[text shortened]... ccording to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

"The Bible teaches us that nothing we do will can get us saved. Not believing, not accepting, nothing. Belief is the cause of salvation, and it is Christ who make us acceptable. Christ has done it all for those who are predestined before the foundation of the world."

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Rom. 10:13-15
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

One must choose. That is plain.

You are mistaken about election. Generally this verse is used to support the Calvinist view that God chose who would be saved and who would be lost before creation. This is an incorrect interpretation of this verse.

Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

It means that God foreknew who would believe the gospel, and consequently gave us something to be conformed to. The image of His son.

Originally posted by knightmeister
It's simple , God cannot save someone who does not want to be saved. We have to be humble enough to receive it. No Doctor can save a man who fights against his treatments.

In one sense , it looks as if we have to "do" something (ie cooperate) but in another it's more a case of allowing God to get on with it.

St Paul talks about us being "co-cr ...[text shortened]... r salvation. The difficult bit is letting God do his bit and for us to focus on our bit.

If God's plan of salvation can be stymied by His children not wanting to accept it, then it seems to put His omnipotence on shaky ground. By an act of His will the whole universe was created, but we can resist that will? Not the kind of heavenly father I would wish to call mine. No wonder I choose to be an atheist.