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@Arkturos saidThe passage from Daniel 2:44 reads (LSB)
By wooing rather than crushing?
“And in the days of of those kings the God of Heaven will cause a kingdom to rise up which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an ends to all these kingdoms, but it will itself stand forever.
@medullah saidI think it’s a duty to vote just as it is to serve. What is not acceptable is railing against those in power if you are going to go by scripture, which says God appoints all of our leadership. The good ones and the bad ones reveal what is in them and in us, as we accept some behavior from some and reject it from others. The difference is in who we like and who we dislike. We own our choices.
I would agree with you.
There isn’t any part of the bible that I’m aware of that would encourage political activity of any sort. The fact the we are to be no part of the world and voting is a worldly practice suggests to me that one should abstain from politics full stop.
The goal of God has never changed. He is building people made in His image. The landscape of our political leadership is not a main concern; rather, it is the people who will love Him and each other, even their enemies.
Jesus didn’t ask that God remove His people from the earth, but keep them from the evil one. He tells us that if we love our lives more than Him, we are not worthy of Him. We are to obey Him, if we love Him, that means loving God and each other; when we hate, we disobey. Satan doesn’t care who we hate or why, only that we do.
@medullah saidIf you have a hand in murder, yes, if you know that is what is going to take place, do you know that is going to happen? No matter who you vote for, you will be voting for someone flawed. Every single one of us is broken; we only have people like that to choose from. The exception is Jesus Christ, but He isn't running for office. He is the King; we choose whether to enter His Kingdom, or not.
@KellyJay
Then if you vote somebody into power knowing full well that they are going to murder people, how are you not guilty yourself to some degree? Knowingly voting in mud weeds must make you complicit?
@medullah saidRomans 13:1-7 is pretty clear: God has set rulers over you, obey them, for they are doing God's work (I paraphrase here). That dovetails with "blessed are the meek." This is a not a doctrine of political activism; it is a doctrine of acceptance of authoritarianism. If I were a Roman Emperor in charge of administering an economy which was dependent upon a very large slave population, that is exactly the sort of religion I would want to be propagated: do as you're told, remain docile, tell them God wants them to suffer and toil as "penance" for what Christ suffered. No surprise then that Constantine called an Ecumenical Council at Nicea in AD 325 to canonize those scrolls which supported authoritarian doctrines.
I would agree with you.
There isn’t any part of the bible that I’m aware of that would encourage political activity of any sort. The fact the we are to be no part of the world and voting is a worldly practice suggests to me that one should abstain from politics full stop.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-13260-5_5
BTW, have you seen that the current Pope is off to Iznik in present-day Turkey, to celebrate the 1700th anniversary of the Council of Nicea?
https://apnews.com/article/nicene-creed-history-pope-leo-xiv-turkey-1c403e4739e0821f7d11aa6b833f9a43
@medullah saidNowhere does the bible encourage complacency and apathy. People are supposed to get out there are make things happen. Praying alone, without acting, is useless and futile.
I would agree with you.
There isn’t any part of the bible that I’m aware of that would encourage political activity of any sort. The fact the we are to be no part of the world and voting is a worldly practice suggests to me that one should abstain from politics full stop.
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; (1Ti 2:1-3 KJV)
Suppose there are two political parties, one leans toward atheism and their values are contrary to Christian values. The other promotes Christianity and builds a society with a good Christian foundation. Christians refusing to vote, while the atheists vote is the reason why life for the Christian becomes difficult.
@KellyJay saidLet’s be honest - if you vote for a party in the duopoly that runs the USA you know full well that they are going to be bombing the crap out of one of the Middle Eastern countries, and if Matt Geartz gets his way maybe Burkina Faso as well?
If you have a hand in murder, yes, if you know that is what is going to take place, do you know that is going to happen? No matter who you vote for, you will be voting for someone flawed. Every single one of us is broken; we only have people like that to choose from. The exception is Jesus Christ, but He isn't running for office. He is the King; we choose whether to enter His Kingdom, or not.
@moonbus saidRomans does direct people to be subservient to the authorities, which I think means that Christian’s should obey the laws of land such as paying taxes and almost any other obligation asked of them.
Romans 13:1-7 is pretty clear: God has set rulers over you, obey them, for they are doing God's work (I paraphrase here). That dovetails with "blessed are the meek." This is a not a doctrine of political activism; it is a doctrine of acceptance of authoritarianism. If I were a Roman Emperor in charge of administering an economy which was dependent upon a very large slave popu ...[text shortened]... https://apnews.com/article/nicene-creed-history-pope-leo-xiv-turkey-1c403e4739e0821f7d11aa6b833f9a43
Where there is a line drawn in the sand is where there is a conflict between what “Caesar” ” wants and what is directed by God. In this situation the authorities have to take a back seat.
@Rajk999 saidIndeed faith without works is dead. As Jesus said “those that are not for me are against me, those who do not gather with me scatters”
Nowhere does the bible encourage complacency and apathy. People are supposed to get out there are make things happen. Praying alone, without acting, is useless and futile.
[i]I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and pe ...[text shortened]... efusing to vote, while the atheists vote is the reason why life for the Christian becomes difficult.
It is written that the whole world is lying in the hands of the wicked one. The world is governed by the political element.
@medullah saidNothing is wrong with bombing some of those Mideast countries.
Let’s be honest - if you vote for a party in the duopoly that runs the USA you know full well that they are going to be bombing the crap out of one of the Middle Eastern countries, and if Matt Geartz gets his way maybe Burkina Faso as well?
@medullah saidRegardless of the world lying in the hands of the wicked one. God is still ruling and controlling what is going on on Earth.
Indeed faith without works is dead. As Jesus said “those that are not for me are against me, those who do not gather with me scatters”
It is written that the whole world is lying in the hands of the wicked one. The world is governed by the political element.
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. (Dan 4:17 KJV)
Nothing there can be an instruction not to go out and vote for people who will uphold Christian principles.
@Rajk999 saidI haven’t suggested that it did ???
Regardless of the world lying in the hands of the wicked one. God is still ruling and controlling what is going on on Earth.
[i]This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the bas ...[text shortened]... there can be an instruction not to go out and vote for people who will uphold Christian principles.
I am stating though that Jesus said that his followers were no part of the world (John 17) and therefore is this not the position that the rest of us should adopt?
I also suggested that Daniel gives you a hint at the time period that the full effect of the kingdom would be felt if you can work out who the fifth world power is ??
@Rajk999 saidOnly Evangelical men should vote, their women not.
Suppose there are two political parties, one leans toward atheism and their values are contrary to Christian values. The other promotes Christianity and builds a society with a good Christian foundation. Christians refusing to vote, while the atheists vote is the reason why life for the Christian becomes difficult.
https://www.npr.org/2025/08/09/nx-s1-5497226/women-pastor-pete-hegseth-vote
@medullah saidDon’t vote if that makes it easier for you to live with yourself. I vote for the things that are imporant to me as I assume others do as well. In my opinion both the R&D are two sides of the same coin.
Let’s be honest - if you vote for a party in the duopoly that runs the USA you know full well that they are going to be bombing the crap out of one of the Middle Eastern countries, and if Matt Geartz gets his way maybe Burkina Faso as well?