Originally posted by VoidSpiritThis Zen guy sounds pretty wise. The truth is still truth regardless
the force of my disgust is only unleashed against disgusting characters and dogmas.
Where do you fume against the kabala ?
the god of the kabala is the same one found in the bible.
Where do you snort "fairytale!" against eastern mysticism ?
see one of my replies to dasa.
[quote]
Where could we g ...[text shortened]... ngs are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are."
if you believe it or not. 😏
Originally posted by VoidSpirit
the force of my disgust is only unleashed against disgusting characters and dogmas.
Where do you fume against the kabala ?
the god of the kabala is the same one found in the bible.
Where do you snort "fairytale!" against eastern mysticism ?
see one of my replies to dasa.
[quote]
Where could we g ...[text shortened]... ngs are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are."
here is a zen proverb that is much better.
I left Zen for Christ around 1971.
It was fun. But it is not God.
Originally posted by Rajk999The backround work on "Penal Substitution" I will let you flesh out. You may look under "Bible Passages" in the "Contents" section in the box.
Just one question for now.
Where is this substitution in the NT .. the concept, not the word.
Here's a link, but not an endorsement wholesale of everything you might read there. For example:
It has traditionally been compared with the so-called classic theory, that Christ's death represents the cosmic defeat of the devil to whom a ransom had to be paid (or the rescue of humanity from the power of sin and death), a view popularised by Gustaf Aulén;
I do not agree with that. The "ransom" was paid to the Law of God, not to the Devil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_substitution
Originally posted by RJHindsYes posting outside sourses for info is great and we all do it. But it seems you did not read any of the postings from outside sources on the trinity and it's origins. How one could read these and many other links and how the trinity is not Christain, has to be blind...
I didn't say I did not read anything you post from legitmate sources.
I admitted that I did not read one or two of your links but you and
robbie carobbie do the same thing. So what's the beef? 😏
Originally posted by galveston75
Who is the head of the Holy Spirit?
Who is the head of the Holy Spirit?
You have asked this question at least twice.
I have avoided answering because when I wish to talk about this I feel a long post coming on. And I fear no one will want to read through it.
God is the Head of the Holy Spirit. But that answer would include both the Father and the Son.
1.) The Father sends the Holy Spirit -
"But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name ..." (John 14:26)
Here it is the Father who sends the Holy Spirit in the Son's name.
Paradoxically though -
2.) The Son sends the Holy Spirit -
"But I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away; for it I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7)
Here the Son sends the Holy Spirit .
Based on the Father's sending in John 14:26 I would like to say that the Father is the Head of the Holy Spirit.
Based on the Son's sending in John 16:7 I would like to say that the Son is the Head of the Holy Spirit.
Yet it is rather mysterious because BOTH the Father and the Son are also said to be the Spirit.
1.) The Father is the Spirit - "But an hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truthfulness, for the Father seeks such to worship Him.
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truthfulness." (John 4:23,24)
Here God the Father is "Spirit".
2.) The Son is also the Holy Spirit or the Son has a pneumatic form in which He is the Spirit -
"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom" (2 Cor. 3:17) ... "For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord" (4:5)
So the Father is the Head of the Spirit.
The Son is the Head of the Spirit.
But both the Father and the Son are also revealed to BE the Spirit.
Originally posted by galveston75Those trinities were a different kind of trinity than what I believe is
Yes posting outside sourses for info is great and we all do it. But it seems you did not read any of the postings from outside sources on the trinity and it's origins. How one could read these and many other links and how the trinity is not Christain, has to be blind...
indicated in the Holy Bible. Therefore, I do not connect the idea
of a trinity of some sort automatically mean the Christian trinity
came from pagan religion. I do see how you could be convinced
that it did and was just changed somewhat to conform to the
Christisn ideas of God. I am not willing to jump to those conclusions.
I am going to examine this Romans 8:9-11 in more detail. I will try to show how each part of Paul's word is confirmed eslewhere:
"But you are not in the flesh but in the spirit ..."
This "spirit", I believe, refers to the human spirit, the kernel; the nucleus; the innermost part of a human being's metaphysical being. Paul is saying that they are subjectively in the realm of their own regenerated Holy Spirit joined and indwelt human spirit.
" ... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him."
The Spirit of God is used interchangeably with the Spirit of Christ.
Full stop here:
How do I know that the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ ?
We're here for the truth.
How do I know that Paul can refer in the same breath to One Person as both "the Spirit of God" and "the Spirit of Christ" ?
Resume -
"But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness."
This small s spirit should also be the small s spirit of verse 9. It is the human spirit. In verse 9 the human flesh is set in contrast to the human spirit. And in verse also in verse 10 the human body is set in contrast to the human spirit.
I stop here.
Originally posted by jaywillah yes, exploiting the ambiguous nature of the term 'spirit', bending it to suit your
I am going to examine this [b]Romans 8:9-11 in more detail. I will try to show how each part of Paul's word is confirmed eslewhere:
"But you are not in the flesh but in the spirit ..."
This "spirit", I believe, refers to the human spirit, the kernel; the nucleus; the innermost part of a human being's metaphysical being. Paul ...[text shortened]... verse 10 the human body is set in contrast to the human spirit.
I stop here.[/b]
Neoplatonic Metaphysical concepts, how interesting, how trinitarian, how predictable!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ah yes, exploiting the ambiguous nature of the term 'spirit', bending it to suit your
Neoplatonic Metaphysical concepts, how interesting, how trinitarian, how predictable!
ah yes, exploiting the ambiguous nature of the term 'spirit', bending it to suit your Neoplatonic Metaphysical concepts, how interesting, how trinitarian, how predictable!
There is nothing ambiguous about the biblical fact of the human spirit. The letter of Romans mentions at the start that Paul serves God in his spirit -
"For God is my witness, whom I serve in my spirit in the gospel of His Son, how unceasingly I make mention of you always in my prayers." (Rom. 1:9)
See Robbie ? Aside from speaking of the Holy Spirit Paul spoke of his own human spirit .
Do you need further proof to make this less ambiguous ?
Again in Romans 8:16 Paul speaks of the Holy Spirit bearing joint witness with the Christians' human spirit:
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God." (Rom. 8:16)
If the Spirit of Christ has not borne witness with YOUR innermost human spirit that you are one of the children of God, then do not blame Greek philosophers. Maybe you simply lack experience of regeneration in your human spirit.
Thus YOUR human spirit is still in need of the new birth.
You may be religious but have a dead human spirit which needs to be born out of its comatose state.
You see when a man is born again, the Holy Spirit causes his human spirit to be enlivened out of its comatose and deadened state. The SOURCE of the birth is the Holy Spirit of God. The result of the birth is a regenerated human spirit deep within you.
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)
AFTER that which is born of the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ), is the human spirit, THEN and only THEN -
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God." (Rom. 8:16)
To be fair, Robbie is not altogether wrong that the word "spirit" is quite easy to toss around so that what is meant is not always clear.
But the New Testament uses the word and clarifies it for the Christian experience.
We should not throw up hands in dispair. Even more we should not exploit any ambiguity with antichrist teachings to fill up the gap for the false teacher.
This passage is for the Christian believer.
It is not for the unbeliever or the one who has not received Christ into their heart by faith.
"But you are not in the flesh but in the [human regenerated] spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him.
But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the [human regenerated] spirit is life because of righteousness.
And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortals bodies though His Spirit who indwells you." (Rom. 8:9-11)
Without the Spirit of Christ you are not His.
But if you have indwelling within the Spirit of God (Christ) then the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead will give life.
Christ became a life giving Spirit - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
his passage is for the Christian believer.belief is nothing,
It is not for the unbeliever or the one who has not received Christ into their heart by faith.
"But you are not in the flesh but in the [human regenerated]spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him.
But if Christ is in you, t me a life giving Spirit - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
(James 2:19-20) . . .You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well.
And yet the demons believe and shudder. But do you care to know, O empty man, that
faith apart from works is inactive?
According to Romans 8:9-11 WHO is the One dwelling within the believers in Christ ?
1.) The Spirit of God
2.) The Spirit of Christ
3.) Christ
4.) The Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead.
Are there FOUR Spirits in the Christian ? She or he can only detect ONE Spirit indwelling deep in their innermost being.
This is the enjoyment of the Trinity.
This is the intended subjective experience of the Triune God.
"WE (Father and Son ) will come to him and make an abode with him" (See John 14:23)
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
belief is nothing,
(James 2:19-20) . . .You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well.
And yet the demons believe and shudder. But do you care to know, O empty man, that
faith apart from works is inactive?
belief is nothing,
(James 2:19-20) . . .You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well.
And yet the demons believe and shudder. But do you care to know, O empty man, that
faith apart from works is inactive?
If belief is nothing then why do you go door to door to try to get people to believe in Jehovah ?
If belief is nothing as you say, then why not simply PAY people to be door knockers with Watchtower material regardless of whether they believe or not ?