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To the Christians in Rome and everywhere is this reality:
1.) The Spirit of God INDWELLING
2.) The Spirit of Christ INDWELLING
3.) Christ INDWELLING
4.) The Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead. INDWELLING
Yet He is one Triune God Father - Son - Holy Spirit.
Denying the Trinity leads to a weakening of the truth of the indwelling Divine Person as divine life.
Denying the Trinity damages the NT revelation of the God dispensed INTO the believers to indwell them.
It leans rather to a Moslem like faith in a purely outward and objective God King "up there" and far far away, in spite of our piety .
Originally posted by jaywillwe dont go house to house to get people to believe in Jehovah, the vast majority ofbelief is nothing,
(James 2:19-20) . . .You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well.
And yet the demons believe and shudder. But do you care to know, O empty man, that
faith apart from works is inactive?
If belief is nothing then why do you go door to door to try to get people to believe in Jehovah ?
If ...[text shortened]... people to be door knockers with Watchtower material regardless of whether they believe or not ?
mankind believe in God, we go from house to house to help people apply Biblical
principles, this is something quite different from merely believing, belief is nothing in
itself, daemons believe!
This is the work that we have discerned that Christ has given to Christians, he could
use the very stones to cry out, or angels, but look, he has given the privilege to
mere imperfect humans, and what a privilege it is, to carry a beautiful message that
Gods original purpose shall be fulfilled, that all persons who desire to live in peace
and harmony can do so, as for paying people, have you never read,
(Revelation 21:6) . . .To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of
life free. . .
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we dont go house to house to get people to believe in Jehovah, the vast majority of
mankind believe in God, we go from house to house to help people apply Biblical
principles, this is something quite different from merely believing, belief is nothing in
itself, daemons believe!
This is the work that we have discerned that Christ has given ...[text shortened]... on 21:6) . . .To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of
life free. . .
(Revelation 21:6) . . .To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. . .
Glad you mentioned that passage because it relates absolutely to the Trinity.
This thirst and drinking of the water of life is directly related to the thirst and drinking of the Holy Spirit mentioned in John 4 and in John 7.
"Jesus answered and said to her, If you knew the gift of God and who it is who saus to you, Give Me a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water. (v.11)
Jesus answered and said to her, Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again, But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up into eternal life." (John 4:13,14)
Here we can see that "eternal life" is the result of drinking the living water. The fountain of living water is installed into the innermost being of the repentant sinner who believes. And from within it springs up into eternal life.
This thirst squenching living water is the Third of the Triune God - the Holy Spirit.
"Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying,
If anyone thirst, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But THIS He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:37-39)
The water of life that you spoke of from Revelation 21 is the Spirit. The Spirit is installed into the ones who believe into Jesus. And that fountain springs up in them into eternal life.
The Trinity is definitely revealed in the living water of the Holy Spirit. For in John 4 to drink of this living water is also to worship God the Father in the Spirit joined with the human spirit and in reality; in truthfulness.
"But an hour is coming, and it is now, when thetrue worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truthfulness, for the Father also seeks such to worship Him.
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truthfulness." (John 4:23,24)
God is Spirit.
God is this Holy Spirit.
For the Holy Spirit to be received is to have the "living water" installed within as a fountain springing up into eternal life.
This is about actually "drinking" God Himself. The THIRD of the Trinity is God in a drinkable form. The THIRD of the Triune God is God in a form in which this eternal life becomes a fountain gushing forth and springing up within a man's being.
Praise the living Lord Jesus.
Originally posted by jaywillGlad you mentioned that passage because it relates absolutely to the Trinity.(Revelation 21:6) . . .To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. . .
Glad you mentioned that passage because it relates absolutely to the Trinity.
This thirst and drinking of the water of life is directly related to the thirst and drinking of the Holy Spirit mentioned in John 4 and in John 7.
...[text shortened]... ing forth and springing up within a man's being.
Praise the living Lord Jesus.
not explicitly stated in scripture, again reflective of the fact that you are projecting
elements not explicit in scripture, did i say the trinity is a product of metaphysics and
not scripture, just saying.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe Father is God. Fallen man is "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18)
Glad you mentioned that passage because it relates absolutely to the Trinity.
not explicitly stated in scripture, again reflective of the fact that you are projecting
elements not explicit in scripture, did i say the trinity is a product of metaphysics and
not scripture, just saying.
But when one is BORN again the human spirit becomes divine life.
"But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness." (Rom. 8: 10)
To be "alienated from the life of God" one is deadened in the human spirit.
To be "joined to the Lord" is to be "one spirit" with God and the human spirit is now the life of God.
" ... the spirit is life because of righteousness".
Tell us. Is the life of God God ? Or is the life of God something other than God ?
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I ask again which of these two concepts represents the truth of the New Testament on this passage:
"And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us." (1 John 1:2)
Which do you believe ?
1.) The eternal life came into existence by creation and from that point it was "with the Father" from then on.
2.) As long as the Father lived in eternity, with Him was the eternal life.
Which concept matches the utterance of 1 John 1:2 ? Anyone -
Originally posted by jaywillIf you ask just anyone, you get me, who thinks the best explanation for the problem is a conflict between the monotheism of the Jewish scriptures and the deification of Jesus that gradually came to be Christian dogma. This dogma relied on certain readings of scripture, one of which you quote. The problem did not really occur to the writers of scripture or during their lifetimes, it only became a problem after the various writings were selected for the Bible and were declared to be inerrant.
I ask again which of these two concepts represents the truth of the New Testament on this passage:
[b]"And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us." (1 John 1:2)
Which do you believe ?
1.) The eternal life came into existence b ...[text shortened]... the eternal life.
Which concept matches the utterance of 1 John 1:2 ? Anyone -[/b]
I doubt Jesus had it in mind that anyone dwell on the matter, when there were more important things to be done.
Originally posted by jaywillNot in the least....Lol(Revelation 21:6) . . .To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. . .
Glad you mentioned that passage because it relates absolutely to the Trinity.
This thirst and drinking of the water of life is directly related to the thirst and drinking of the Holy Spirit mentioned in John 4 and in John 7.
...[text shortened]... ing forth and springing up within a man's being.
Praise the living Lord Jesus.
Originally posted by JS357Are you saying that the framers of the concept of the trinity and triune God is an attempt to solve a non-existent problem?
If you ask just anyone, you get me, who thinks the best explanation for the problem is a conflict between the monotheism of the Jewish scriptures and the deification of Jesus that gradually came to be Christian dogma. This dogma relied on certain readings of scripture, one of which you quote. The problem did not really occur to the writers of scripture or duri ...[text shortened]... ad it in mind that anyone dwell on the matter, when there were more important things to be done.
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Originally posted by JS357
If you ask just anyone, you get me, who thinks the best explanation for the problem is a conflict between the monotheism of the Jewish scriptures and the deification of Jesus that gradually came to be Christian dogma. This dogma relied on certain readings of scripture, one of which you quote. The problem did not really occur to the writers of scripture or duri ...[text shortened]... ad it in mind that anyone dwell on the matter, when there were more important things to be done.
If you ask just anyone, you get me, who thinks the best explanation for the problem is a conflict between the monotheism of the Jewish scriptures and the deification of Jesus that gradually came to be Christian dogma. This dogma relied on certain readings of scripture, one of which you quote. The problem did not really occur to the writers of scripture or during their lifetimes, it only became a problem after the various writings were selected for the Bible and were declared to be inerrant.
I doubt Jesus had it in mind that anyone dwell on the matter, when there were more important things to be done.
Assuming that the Apostle John wrote words in a meaningful way, which do you think he intended to convey ?
He wrote something under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We cannot say that he meant nothing until 200 years latter after he had died, and it was in the minds of others.
"And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us." (1 John 1:2)
Which do you believe ?
1.) The eternal life came into existence by creation and from that point it was "with the Father" from then on.
2.) As long as the Father lived in eternity, with Him was the eternal life.
Which concept matches the utterance of 1 John 1:2 ? Anyone -
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The Apostle John's emphasis in "the beginning" underscores his care to go back to basics. Rather than introducing something novel and new, he ever writes to bring the Christians back from going astray to the beginnings of the message:
John is a tent or net mender, so to speak. He is one repairing any holes in the Gospel net that was cast out to gather believers. Read how John labors to remind the believers of the beginning .
"That which was from the beginning ..." (1 John 1:1)
" ... an old commandment, which you have had from the beginning ..." (1 John 1:7)
"I write to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning ..." (1 John 2:13)
" ... because you know Him who is from the beginning ..." ( v.14)
"As for you, that which you heard from the beginning, let it abide in you." (2:24)
"If that which you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (v.24)
"For this is the message which you heard from the beginning, ..." (3:11)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1)
That Christ is God and the source of the believer's eternal life, and indwelling divine life, is not some afterthought introduced by the squabbles of "trinitarians" centries latter.
Originally posted by Rajk999I am saying that I do not think the originators of the scriptures that came into conflict were aware that their scriptures would be put together in one "book" and treated as if (1) they present a uniform, coherent, internally consistent whole, and (2) they are the inerrant, inspired word of God.
Are you saying that the framers of the concept of the trinity and triune God is an attempt to solve a non-existent problem?
The scriptures that came into conflict are whatever pre-CE Jewish scriptures asserted monotheistic God, and whatever CE scriptures asserted the divinity of the son as God and his father as God (not to mention the HS).
I am also saying that Jesus would say, there are more important things to be concerned about.
Originally posted by jaywillIf you ask just anyone, you get me, who thinks the best explanation for the problem is a conflict between the monotheism of the Jewish scriptures and the deification of Jesus that gradually came to be Christian dogma. This dogma relied on certain readings of scripture, one of which you quote. The problem did not really occur to the writers of scriptu ...[text shortened]... the eternal life.
Which concept matches the utterance of 1 John 1:2 ? Anyone -
He wrote something under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
I lack that belief. But I lack belief in the father-god, the son-god, the spirit-god, and god, period.
What he intended to convey was obviously, not conveyed as well as other verses like "Jesus wept."
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Originally posted by JS357
I am saying that I do not think the originators of the scriptures that came into conflict were aware that their scriptures would be put together in one "book" and treated as if (1) they present a uniform, coherent, internally consistent whole, and (2) they are the inerrant, inspired word of God.
The scriptures that came into conflict are whatever pre-CE Je ...[text shortened]...
I am also saying that Jesus would say, there are more important things to be concerned about.
The scriptures that came into conflict are whatever pre-CE Jewish scriptures asserted monotheistic God, and whatever CE scriptures asserted the divinity of the son as God and his father as God (not to mention the HS).
Perhaps I do not understand your intent here.
You do not believe that there was any confict before the New Testament was even written ?
Before the New Testament was written down the Pharisees had trouble with this question of Jesus to them -
"Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus questioned them, Saying, What do you think concerning the Christ ? Whose son is He ? They said to Him, David's.
He said to them, How then does David in spirit call Him Lord, saying,
The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies underneath Your feet" ?
If then David calls Him Lord, how is He his son ?
And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone from that day dare to question Him anymore." (Matt. 22:41-46)
This is before the Greek New Testament is written. The religionists don't know what to do with Christ's usage of the Old Testament Scriptures to point out His Divinity. The passages are both from the pre-CE Hebrew Bible.