You claim that evil doing by members is not an indicator of the rightness or wrongness of religion. I agree with that.
But it doesn't follow from the observation that much evil has been done over the centuries in the name of religion.
Originally posted by twhitehead I think you will find that in most of that warfare, Christians were the aggressors. Christianity has a history just as bad as Islam, so is it evil?
I would say that Constantine hijacked Christianity. For he used it to conquer.
Constantine was not even a Christian, although it was rumored that he converted on his death bed.
Once collectivists turned the religion for their own use, out came the Crusades, the Inquisitions, and the rest of the evil. Before this time Christians had spread their religion by leaps and bounds as they were being thrown to the lions by collectivists like Nero.
Conversely, Mohammad converted with the sword from day one. Islam has only known violence and war since.
Originally posted by menace71 Is Islam the true and real threat to the rest (Western world) of the world ? Many will say Islam has been hijacked by radicals of that faith but throughout the history of this religion it has been fraught with warfare. The Sunni against the Shia and also any other people who do not capitulate and become Muslim get heads chopped off !! Any religion who wishes to kill and starve women and children no matter what name it goes by is evil
Ok after a bit of thought it's the radicals of any religious group that seem to be evil. I know not all Muslims or Christians are hell bent on world domination.
Originally posted by wolfgang59 Sounds like these "certain places" must have at least 50 executions a year and as its "certain places" I assume at least two?
That's a minimum of 100 executions a year you are suggesting!
No I'm just repeating what I was told from a colleague who lives there. If there was one public execution in one place per year would that be ok with you then?
Originally posted by FMF How does women not being allowed to work in Saudi Arabia "scare" you exactly?
And, to tie this into the OP, do you think things like "It [being] illegal to have a beer but not to smoke" in Saudi Arabia is in any way "the true and real threat to the Western world"? If not, what exactly is? Do you have better illustrations of that perceived threat?
Extremist religionist beliefs which induce violence and oppression scare me; Saudi Arabia is just a country, but it is an example of a country who's leadership and religious governing body which holds to extreme religionist beliefs and has influence on the Islamic religion in other countries. Those extreme beliefs from that particular religion impact some people in other countries sometimes resulting in terrible occurrences, here is an extreme illustration although I'm surprised you feel the need to ask for one.
Originally posted by FMF But isn't this just a description of Saudi Arabia with its dictatorship ruling 28 million people? How do you explain the fact that the vast majority of Muslims, remember there are 2,080,000,000 of them ~ including those in countries where Muslims hold the reins of political power ~ do not live in circumstances like those in Saudi Arabia and do not seek to?
I would imagine this is because the vast majority of Muslims are not Muslims who hold extreme religionist beliefs. Furthermore I'm told buy people who live in Saudi that there is a growing mood among the younger generation in Saudi to relax the religious laws, although it seems this is unlikely to happen. There also apparently a large number of Saudi's who want to emigrate but are not permitted to. I would assume that these people are illustrative of the sector of the Saudi population who do not hold extreme religious beliefs.
Extremist religionist beliefs which induce violence and oppression scare me; Saudi Arabia is just a country, but it is an example of a country who's leadership and religious governing body which holds to extreme religionist beliefs and has influence on the Islamic religion in other countries. Those extreme beliefs from that particular religion impact some people in other countries sometimes resulting in terrible occurrences, here is an extreme illustration although I'm surprised you feel the need to ask for one.
That was a terrible murder and terrorist atrocity. Without a doubt.
But does it represent a bigger threat ['to the Western world" ~ to echo the OP] than, say, for example, drugs ~ drug dealing, drug crime, drug overdoses, teenage drug addiction, drug-related gang killings, organized crime?
Originally posted by divegeester http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lee_Rigby
Ps I chose this illustration solely on the basis that it is in play in the general forum and top of mind. It is just an illustration.
It is not "in play" on the General Forum. whodey only does facetious and joking around and stuff like accusing opponents of being Nazis etc. He doesn't do 'serious' discussions about anything. And lemon lime has deemed my thoughts on the terrible murder of Lee Rigby as "unfit for discussion" and suggested they be deleted but this is most likely because he had his wheels off and his on-fire-pants at his ankles on page 10 of Thread 160396.
Originally posted by FMF [b]Extremist religionist beliefs which induce violence and oppression scare me; Saudi Arabia is just a country, but it is an example of a country who's leadership and religious governing body which holds to extreme religionist beliefs and has influence on the Islamic religion in other countries. Those extreme beliefs from that particular religion impact some peo ...[text shortened]... drug crime, drug overdoses, teenage drug addiction, drug-related gang killings, organized crime?
No, it's just an illustration of why extreme Islam scares me more than extreme Christianity. I readily accept that the majority of Moslems are loving decent people, as are the majority of Christians.
Edit: the recent Birmingham schools issue is a better illustration of the social threat from Islamic fundamentalism.
Originally posted by divegeester ...the recent Birmingham schools issue is a better illustration of the social threat from Islamic fundamentalism.
Agreed. And it also triggered some useful debate about other "social threats" and shortcomings that are rather concealed or downplayed by misty-eyed hogwash about "British Values".
09 Aug '14 22:231 edit
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