Originally posted by Rajk999
The way I see it? Me ?

Did I quote from the book of Rajk999 Chapter 5:1-3?
Or did I quote from the writings of Paul. from Peter, from Christ.

Is there something Paul said that you did not understand? If so let me know and maybe I can help.

I asked you on your interpretation of the scriptures that you quoted and also based on what you have said in the past. If you don't want to answer the question that's fine.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I asked you on your interpretation of the scriptures that you quoted and also based on what you have said in the past. If you don't want to answer the question that's fine.

Pauls writings speak for themselves and I offered absolutely no interpretation. If you dont understand it thats fine. Let me know if you want Pauls words explained and I may be able to help.

Has anyone seen the importance of the speaking mouth is in Romans 8 ?
How can a Bible believer object to using the mouth to speak in faith so that victory in Christ can be obtained?

THE IMPORTANCE of the SPEAKING MOUTH in Romans 8 -

1.) If we are children of God seeking to grow into sons of God, the MOUTH is certainly helpful in our crying " Abba Father ". This is a verbal and prayerful expression of love and intimacy towards the begetting Father God.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery bringing you into fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba Father!

The Spirit Himself wtnesses with our spirit that we are children of God." (Rom. 8:14-16)

Crying "Daddy! My Papa! Abba Father!" requires the mouth. You can't cry if you don't use your mouth.

Don't listen to the nonsense of accusing Christians of "mouth worship" for crying "Abba Father" out loud with a prayerful and strong spirit. The Christian wants to experience fresh the Holy Spirit bearing co-witness with their regenerated spirit that they are in a family relationship with God.

In the heat of temptation, how effective to overcome by even whispering "O Lord Jesus," or "O Abba Father! Father I love You."

2.) Then there is the mouth employed in the groaning. You know to utter " O " in the prayerful call " O Lord Jesus " is a kind of groaning. To prayerfully groan "O Abba Father. O my Father God" is also a kind of spiritual groaning the Apostle Paul is not discouraging at all.

"and not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the spirit, even we groan in ourselves. eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body." (v.23)

We Christians can groan in ourselves. This certainly can often involved the mouth. We use our mouth to utter the groaning prayer which is too deep for words sometimes.

sometimes you do not have the adequate words to tell God of your need. So you groan - " O LORD JESUS ! O Lord, Lord JESUS !! " You use your mouth and the Holy Spirit groans within your verbal groaning what God perfectly understands and knows what the need is.

"Moreover, in like manner the Spirit also joins in to help us in our weakness, for we do not know for what we should pray as is fitting ..."

That's why we Christians sometimes just need to groan - "O Lord Jesus. O Abba FATHER!"

In LIKE manner, in our groaning, in the spiritual realm, the Person of the Holy Spirit, the Helper, the Advocate Who comes along side to HELP - groans with us.

" ... in like manner the Spirit also joins in to help ...but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." (v.26)

Since we Christians are like salmon fish swimming upstream against the downward current of the corrupted and corrupting world, we should SPEAK the truth and utter groans to exercise our spirit. The Holy Spirit "joins in" to help the believer.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Pauls writings speak for themselves and I offered absolutely no interpretation. If you dont understand it thats fine. Let me know if you want Pauls words explained and I may be able to help.

So every word in the Bible speaks for itself and no interpretation is ever needed in your opinion or does only this specific text happen to speak for itself?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So every word in the Bible speaks for itself and no interpretation is ever needed in your opinion or does only this specific text happen to speak for itself?

This passage speaks for itself and sonship quoted part of it and left out part. Hence my post. If you think you are going to drag me into some nonsense question and answer session you are mistaken. If you have a problem with this specific passage I would be glad to help.

"And not only so, but WE ourselves also, ... WE ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body." (v.23)

"We" means the Apostle Paul included himself.

So Paul involved himself in this (according to Rajk999) "milk" of Romans chapter 8. Like Paul I want to go along with the saints in using the mouth to groan and call and praise and shout and do whatever else that solidifies my enjoyment of the Spirit.

Here is another place where SPEAKING with the mouth can certainly help the Christian.

In Romans 8, the chapter Rajk999 yawns at as being Oh So Elementary - "milk" for babies.

" And we know taht all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." (Rom. 8:28)

If you don't think sometimes you have to deny yourself, deny your doubt and affirm that all things are being caused to work together for good by God - BY SPEAKING IT ... ?

This requires very often "the sacrifice of praise".
This requires to praise and verbally give thanks to God letting Him know you trust Him.

All things you see may look pretty bad. But you speak, you utter by faith -

" O Lord Jesus. I praise You that God causes all things, even this thing, to work together for good. O Lord, I speak in faith. Lord YOU cause all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to Your eternal purpose."

Sure, you can just think it if you want , dear Christians.
Too often I need to HEAR myself SAY it.
Not only so, I want the Devil who teases and accuses, to HEAR it as well.

"Lord Jesus! ALL things work together for good by Your sovereign transcendence. All things You are causing to work together for the good of Your eternal purpose."

Rajk999 can scoff and say "O that's just milk and mouth worship. How against the Bible."

Revelation says that they overcame by the WORD of their testimony. They overcame by speaking the divine facts.

"Jesus is Lord" - a divine FACT.
" I am crucified with Christ " - a divine FACT as a Christian.
"All things God causes to work together for good" - a divine FACT.

"The sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the coming glory to be revealed upon us " (Rom. 8:18) - another divine FACT.

"Christ is in me as the hope of glory" - another divine FACT for speaking; for proclaiming; for living.

"Abba Father. I am being led by the Spirit to become a son of God" - a divine Fact.

Somewhere in the OT it says that God was enthroned upon the PRAISES of His saints.
In the praising God, with our heart and mouth of faith, is enthroned.
We can come under His headship through our speaking our way to enthrone Him.

Its Psalm 22:3

Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.

Originally posted by sonship

[b] "And not only so, but WE ourselves also, ... WE ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body." (v.23)

"We" means the Apostle Paul included himself.

So Paul involved himself in this (according to Rajk999) "milk" of Romans chapter 8. Like Paul I want to go along with the saints in us ...[text shortened]... n and call and praise and shout and do whatever else that solidifies my enjoyment of the Spirit.[/b]

A time for milk and a time for MEAT
A time to groan and a time for MEAT

Paul and the Apostles preached the milk.
Paul and the Apostles preached the meat.

You like milk alone and you will reap the consequences of your choice .. like everyone else.

Originally posted by sonship
Here is another place where SPEAKING with the mouth can certainly help the Christian.

In [b] Romans 8, the chapter Rajk999 yawns at as being Oh So Elementary - "milk" for babies.

" And we know taht all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." (Rom. 8:28) [/quot ...[text shortened]... uote] Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.

[/b]

Your head is a bit hard and your understand dull.

I am not speaking against milk at all. I am speaking against MILK EXCLUSIVELY... and completely ignoring MEAT. Paul warned about that very clearly.

You and those who follow your nonsense will never move forward to perfection in Christ, because TALK ALONE leads to eternal death.

Romans 8 speaks of children of God.
Then it speaks also of "sons of God".
And it speaks also of "heirs of God - joint heirs with Christ".

The whole scope of spiritual growth is covered in this chapter.

Children of God are caused by the Spirit of God coming into their spirit.
Sons of God come out of children of God being LED by the Spirit of God.
And heirs of God and joint heirs are matured sons ready to be rewarded to reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom.

It is silly to say Romans 8 only covers elementary things.
Really Romans climaxes in chapter 8.

These verses may certainly be considered as the high peak or summit of all Paul's teaching in Romans - at least up to this point.

"Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers;

And those whom He predestination, these he also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified." (Rom. 8:28,29)

This verse speaks to WHY God is doing all the things mentioned up until now. This is the reason and the climax of His justification from condemnation, His sanctification, His identifying us with Christ, His indwelling us, His leading us and His maturing us.

To produce brothers of the FIRSTBORN Son that Jesus may be the FIRST among many brother sons of God.

Since this chapter involves the climax of God's salvation how can we say it is only elementary "milk" of the word of God ?

Whether it is considered milk, meat, or bones - the Christians needs to thoroughly know it and be in the experience of these things.

Look, to God it is all already accomplished. From His standpoint we Christians have already been glorified as in past tense.

" ... these He also GLORIFIED."

Of course then we should SPEAK the truth, not from our standpoint but from the perspective of God's viewpoint. They overcame the enemy by the word of their testimony!

Originally posted by FMF
Little white lies that come up in everyday life when the naked truth is inappropriate.

Like pretending you are another poster here at RHP?

Any one who does not think their poo smells as bad other sinners is a half wit.

Originally posted by sonship
Romans 8 speaks of [b]children of God.
Then it speaks also of "sons of God".
And it speaks also of "heirs of God - joint heirs with Christ".

The whole scope of spiritual growth is covered in this chapter.

Children of God are caused by the Spirit of God coming into their spirit.
Sons of God come out of children of God being LE ...[text shortened]... rom the perspective of God's viewpoint. They overcame the enemy by the word of their testimony![/b]

IF !! .. ignoring the word IF?

IF you are led by the Spirit of God.
IF you are, THEN you do not sin.
THEN you are sons of God,, ONLY THEN

IF you live a life of sin then you are in the flesh
THEN you are not sons of God.

Its like Paul said in Galatians 5, there is a way to WALK IN THE SPIRIT.

Its not talk talk talk. Is living righteously, avoiding sin and doing good works.

THEN you are walking in the Spirit.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Genesis 4 NIV
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Without God does anyone avoid sin?

You seem to ignore what the verse actually says.

The phrase "sin is crouching at your door" is part of a conditional statement which is " if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door". So "sin is crouching at your door" only IF "you do not do what is right". It is not "sin is crouching at your door" IF you are "without God".

The verse further goes on to state that "it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” Clearly God is saying that not only CAN Cain "rule over it" - he MUST "rule over it". Cain would do so by "do[ing] what is right".

Instead of trying to twist the verse into saying something it doesn't, you should let the words speak for themselves.

Originally posted by FMF
Judging by the way sonship reacts, he finds many of my questions awkward. He used to acknowledge it, at least until his deterioration in 2015 and 2016. Nowadays, he treats this place as a vanity project and not as a place to participate in debate and discussion.

I just skip so much of his stuff. I give him some time ... I start to read and he's talking about dwelling on things a bit more and not having gotten to that part yet. Sheeesh. Not having gotten to that part yet? Whats he going to do? Lay out the whole effin' bible in the spirituality forum?
Doesn't he get it that he is a thread killer?

Originally posted by whodey
Like pretending you are another poster here at RHP?

Any one who does not think their poo smells as bad other sinners is a half wit.

Good one whodey.... 🙄