It desires to have you

Originally posted by chaney3
Heaven.
He was part of God's plan for Jesus.

Interesting. What about other people who have done things as "part of God's plan for Jesus"... for example those soldiers who crucified him? Pilate? The crowd who called for Barabas to be released?

Originally posted by divegeester
Interesting. What about other people who have done things as "part of God's plan for Jesus"... for example those soldiers who crucified him? Pilate? The crowd who called for Barabas to be released?

The entire issue regarding what 'needed' to unfold to make certain that Jesus died is a complex one. Did God intervene along the way? Or did all involved act entirely on their own? I don't know.

But I will refer again to Pharoah. Would he have let the people go after the 1st plague on his own? Without God hardening his heart?

Would Pilate have let Jesus go, regardless of the crowd?

For me, some details get hazy as to what extent God intervenes in a situation that could have unfolded much differently without His influence.

Originally posted by FMF
You asked me a question about what's humanly possible and humanly impossible, in terms of 'doing the right thing', in an attempt to press home some sort of convoluted ideology you have, and then promptly refused to give any examples of 'doing the right thing' that lie either side of the possible-impossible boundary. It's you who is dodging.

You I both know that no one is capable of obeying their conscience without fail for the entire duration of their life, so stop pretending otherwise. You are just trying to muddy the waters with your daffy questions.

Originally posted by FMF
And you are clearly asking your daft question for obvious reasons. First, I'd like you to address this relationship you have claimed there is between "sin" and behaviour that is not "humanly possible" and give me some illustrative examples.

The question I asked you was crystal clear, you and I both know the answer to it and you are just dodging the question and responding with your own fatuous questions.

Originally posted by chaney3
The entire issue regarding what 'needed' to unfold to make certain that Jesus died is a complex one. Did God intervene along the way? Or did all involved act entirely on their own? I don't know.

But I will refer again to Pharoah. Would he have let the people go after the 1st plague on his own? Without God hardening his heart?

Would Pilate have let ...[text shortened]... t God intervenes in a situation that could have unfolded much differently without His influence.

That's ok for stuff to get hazy, it does for me also. But in defending Judas as a matter of divine morality you are setting out a potiential doctrine on it. Do you see that? It's fine to do that, I just wondered how you would extrapolate it to other people and situations to explore its veracity and moral integrity.

Originally posted by divegeester
That's ok for stuff to get hazy, it does for me also. But in defending Judas as a matter of divine morality you are setting out a potiential doctrine on it. Do you see that? It's fine to do that, I just wondered how you would extrapolate it to other people and situations to explore its veracity and moral integrity.

Yes, I realize the dilemma.

But, with more thought on the subject, it would appear that antagonists were needed in the story, lest Jesus would have volunteered to be crucified, which would not have made sense. He needed the 'characters' to perform exactly as they did. Is that divine?

Both God and Jesus knew the fate of Jesus all along. Were the antagonists (Judas, Pilate, crowds, pharisees, etc.) all part of a master plan, or did God just know how they would respond to Jesus?

Are we to believe that without a 'Judas', that Jesus would have escaped and lived a long life elsewhere? Or that Judas did exactly what he was born to do?

Originally posted by chaney3
Yes, I realize the dilemma.

But, with more thought on the subject, it would appear that antagonists were needed in the story, lest Jesus would have volunteered to be crucified, which would not have made sense. He needed the 'characters' to perform exactly as they did. Is that divine?

Both God and Jesus knew the fate of Jesus all along. Were the anta ...[text shortened]... have escaped and lived a long life elsewhere? Or that Judas did exactly what he was born to do?

Hi there. If I may. If God is omniscient - the rest follows, using deductive reasoning. If He's already seen what is going to happen and did not take measures to change or prevent those things, then they must be pre-ordained. Thus Judas DID do what he was born to do, as did the crowds, pharisees, etc. Not taking into account whether we LIKE this conclusion, is it wrong?

Originally posted by Tom Wolsey
Hi there. If I may. If God is omniscient - the rest follows, using deductive reasoning. If He's already seen what is going to happen and did not take measures to change or prevent those things, then they must be pre-ordained. Thus Judas DID do what he was born to do, as did the crowds, pharisees, etc. Not taking into account whether we LIKE this conclusion, is it wrong?

Hello.

So, did Judas exercise his own free will to betray Jesus, or was his life pre-determined by God to be the betrayer?

My guess is that God was involved, which alters my opinion about the role of Judas, which was necessary for the crucifixion and subsequent salvation.

Originally posted by sonship
[b] The phrase "sin is crouching at your door" is part of a conditional statement which is " if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door". So "sin is crouching at your door" only IF "you do not do what is right". It is not "sin is crouching at your door" IF you are "without God".
------------------------------------------------------- ...[text shortened]... his is the context of God telling Cain patiently that if he did better he too would be accepted.[/b]

C'mon jaywill. You seem to have not understood the point of my post.
Reread the OP and my response to it.

Originally posted by chaney3
Hello.

So, did Judas exercise his own free will to betray Jesus, or was his life pre-determined by God to be the betrayer?

My guess is that God was involved, which alters my opinion about the role of Judas, which was necessary for the crucifixion and subsequent salvation.

Can't really say if God was directly involved, or merely pre-ordained what He foresaw.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You I both know that no one is capable of obeying their conscience without fail for the entire duration of their life, so stop pretending otherwise. You are just trying to muddy the waters with your daffy questions.

I can obey my conscience.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I can obey my conscience.

All of the time?
Without fail?
For the duration of your life?

Nonsense!!

Originally posted by chaney3
All of the time?
Without fail?
For the duration of your life?

Nonsense!!

I don't hurt others and I continue to stop hurting myself (I dilute my desires according to what I can handle). My conscience in a nutshell.
I can stick to that.
I do think that the base of "being out of touch" with your own conscience comes from a sexual base. Allign that right, look at that in the right line and all other things follow.
Well that's the short of it

edit: For the duration of my life?
Well yeah, the hard parts over, I've just passed halfway and it's all downhill from here 🙂

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
The question I asked you was crystal clear, you and I both know the answer to it and you are just dodging the question and responding with your own fatuous questions.

So you are not willing to expand on your ideas about the zone between doing the right thing that is "humanly possible" and doing the right thing that is not. Oh well. That gimmick is much more interesting to me than your gimmicky question about whether a person always does the right thing.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You I both know that no one is capable of obeying their conscience without fail for the entire duration of their life, so stop pretending otherwise.

Yes we both know it and I am clearly not pretending anything so why do keep asking about it? I want to know more about your notion that "sin" is somehow defined by something that is not "humanly possible".