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    11 Feb '10 12:47
    One of the meanings of being "saved" in the Bible is receiving the gift of eternal redemption and eternal life. This thread is meant by me to focus on this aspect of the word "saved" and of this aspect of salvation as a gift received.

    In this aspect of being saved it is a matter of receiving the One who has done the work, the finished work on behalf of sinners, Jesus Christ.

    To be joined to Him by faith causes the believer to be benefitted by Christ's finished work even if she or he does not understand very much. Just by calling on His name to contact Him the believer is saved from eternal judgment.

    And I will demonstrate that it is easy to be saved forever in this specific aspect of the word "saved".
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    11 Feb '10 12:561 edit
    When I say it is Easy to be Saved Forever, I do not mean it was easy for everyone. It as not easy for Christ to accomplish what He did in order that man may be saved. He accomplished something which no other being could do.

    We can benefit from the finished work which Christ accomplished. When Christ comes into your innermost spirit as He is able, the benefit of that accomplished work is yours forever. It is a gift. You simply receive Christ and the gift of eternal salvation is yours.

    There is nothing for you or I to boast in. If there is anything hard about it it is the attitude of humbling oneself to realize the one cannot save oneself.

    We are just a lost sheep in need of the shepherd to find us, pcik us up, put us on His capable shoulders and take us home.

    There is nothing of human pride or boast. You cannot point to yourself and say "Look wqhat I did" in pride. You did nothing. You just accepted the Person of the Savior.

    You may not have understood very much at all. You just believed that Christ is alive and when He drew near you opened your heart and received Him, perhaps not even knowing what you were doing.

    It is Easy to be Saved Forever (in this meaning of saved). Ie. Eternal redemption, regeneration of a new spiritualbirth, and forgiveness of sins.

    Next I will get into calling on the name of the Lord Jesus to be saved forever, which is quite easy to do.
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    11 Feb '10 13:292 edits
    Romans 10:13 is the explicit teaching of the apostles. It says that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus will be saved. This passage is under assault by some. But it stands.

    The subject of Romans 10 is on God causing Jesus Christ to die and resurrect for sinners. In the previous verses to 13, God asks if there is anyone who can bring Christ down from heaven to die for us and if anyone can bring Christ up from the abyss to resurrect for the audience of this letter.

    "But the righteousness which is out of faith speaks in this way, Do not say in your heart, Who will ascend into heaven? that is, to bring Christ down; Or, Who will descend into the abyss? that is to bring Christ up from the dead?" (vs.6,7)

    The point is that there is no person who can accomplish these feats. Such a work can only be done by God alone. It is God Himself Who has caused Christ to be incarnated and come to earth to die for the sinners. It is God Himself Who has caused Christ to rise from the dead.

    Therefore, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord today is saved.

    Man can be saved eternally just by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus. This calling can be as easy as "saying" His name to invoke Him. To whisper "Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus" is truly an easy way that anyone may be saved today. I am speaking of "saved" in the sense of the gift of receiving the finished work of Christ.

    To contact a person nearby you can just say his or her name. They notice you and respond to your having invoked the name. It is the same with the Son of God Jesus Christ. Paul did not mean lifting up the name of Jesus as a curse word. He meant calling or even saying the name of Jesus with the intent to draw to Jesus and have Jesus come to you.

    Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. You could not bring Christ down. You could not bring Christ up from the dead. God Himself alone could accomplish this. You CAN call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved by His work.
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    11 Feb '10 13:351 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]Romans 10:13 is the explicit teaching of the apostles. It says that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus will be saved. This passage is under assault by some. But it stands.

    The subject of Romans 10 is on God causing Jesus Christ to die and resurrect for sinners. In the previous verses to 13, God asks if there is anyone who can bring Chri ld accomplish this. You CAN call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved by His work.[/b]
    can one ask where the quotation from Romans 10:13 was originally placed in the Biblical cannon? It is after all a direct quotation from the Hebrew scriptures is it not?
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    11 Feb '10 14:101 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    can one ask where the quotation from Romans 10:13 was originally placed in the Biblical cannon? It is after all a direct quotation from the Hebrew scriptures is it not?
    deleted.
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    11 Feb '10 14:23
    Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13 does not say whoever begs. It does not even say whoever implores.

    This passage is not a call for man to grovel and beg God to do something. It is about going to God and informing Him - "Jesus is Lord". One only needs to go and inform the Lord with a word that acknowledges your acceptance of His being Lord.

    It is not whosoever begs, whosoever pleads and pleads with tears. It is simply to call on the name of the Lord Jesus.

    One may not say that there is absolutely no sense of "to implore" in the Greek word translated call. But it is not restricted to imploring.

    Since God caused the Lord Jesus to die and resurrect for us, all who desire to be saved need only to go to God and tell Him. They will then be saved. As long as you would go to the Lord Jesus and call His name once, you will be saved.

    All Paul teaches you need to do is open your mouth once. You do not need to do anything else to receive this gift of salvation because Christ has completed the work.

    That is why the Bible says we are justified by faith and not by works (Gal. 2:16)

    In this thread I am concentrating on this GIFT aspect of eternal salvation. This does not mean there is no other angle to our cooperation with God. But because justification by and salvationby calling are under assault by many modern day Pseudo Judiazers I am burdened to emphasize this matter.

    We will soon see WHY the sinner is saved just by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus. The answer is in the prophecy of Joel which the apostle Peter quotes in his first church age Gospel messasge - (Acts 2:17).
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    11 Feb '10 14:341 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    can one ask where the quotation from Romans 10:13 was originally placed in the Biblical cannon? It is after all a direct quotation from the Hebrew scriptures is it not?
    One can ask many things.

    Perhaps someone else would discuss the canonicity of the book of Romans.

    Paul's reference to calling on the name of the Lord is surely not his original invention. Before he was a disciple the apostle Peter informed his audience on Pentacost that the pouring out of the Holy Spirit was a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. And Joel, an Old Testament prophet, predicted - "And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Acts 2:21).

    Joel said that God's Spirit would be poured out on all flesh in the last days. This means that the Spirit of God is just like the surrounding air in the earth's atmosphere. If one opens up and calls on the name of the Lord, the surrounding Spirit of God will rush into him just as the air rushes into the lungs.

    Paul was in harmony with Peter to whom Christ gave the keys to open the kingdom of the heavens to men. Peter quoted Joel that everyone who calls on the Lord will be saved. Paul writes in Romans the basic same truth.

    The Spirit of God and of Christ is poured out over all flesh. To open the mouth and call "Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus" causes the Spirit of Christ to enter into the caller.

    It is not a matter of begging. It is simply a matter of acknowledging that Jesus is your Lord. His joining Himself to you causes His finished work to be applied to you forever.
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    11 Feb '10 14:592 edits
    Originally posted by jaywill
    One can [b]ask many things.

    Perhaps someone else would discuss the canonicity of the book of Romans.

    Paul's reference to calling on the name of the Lord is surely not his original invention. Before he was a disciple the apostle Peter informed his audience on Pentacost that the pouring out of the Holy Spirit was a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. An Lord. His joining Himself to you causes His finished work to be applied to you forever.[/b]
    ok, so we get a result, it was from the book of Joel, chapter 2:32 to be precise. A direct quotation no less.

    Are you aware Jay that in the original language it does not state Jesus Christ, but rather Yahweh, or Jehovah? The four letters of the divine name (JHVH) being present in the original text? i suppose it makes very little difference to you, for you believe they are one and the same, i just thought it was strange that there was no mention of Jehovah in the verse, after all, its there in the original text, the divine name having been substituted with the Greek for Lord as you're translation renders it.

    Ok, you can carry on saving - wish you well - Robbie.
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    11 Feb '10 15:20
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ok, so we get a result, it was from the book of Joel, chapter 2:32 to be precise. A direct quotation no less.

    Are you aware Jay that in the original language it does not state Jesus Christ, but rather Yahweh, or Jehovah? The four letters of the divine name (JHVH) being present in the original text? i suppose it makes very little difference to yo ...[text shortened]... Lord as you're translation renders it.

    Ok, you can carry on saving - wish you well - Robbie.
    Of course Jesus had not been incarnated during the lifetime of Joel. By the time Peter gave his gospel message God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

    Notice that the astronomical signs such as blood color of the moon and such things also did not occur at the time of Pentacost. So Joel's prophecy must span over a considerable long time.

    In that long span of time there is occasion for Jehovah to accomplish many things. Judging from Joel 3:11-13 this includes God coming to "sit" in the valley of Jehoshaphat and judge many nations presented before Him.

    "Hurry and come, All you surounding nations, And be gathered. There cause your mighty ones to descend, O Jehovah!

    Let the nations rouse themselves and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat. For THERE WILL I SIT TO JUDGE ALL THE SURROUNDING NATIONS." (Joel 3:11,12)


    We cannot deny the strong similarity between this passage and the events of associated with the battle of Armageddon in Revelation 19.

    It is also reminiscient of Christ Jesus, the Son of Man sitting on the throne of His glory and seperating before Him the sheep nations from the goat nations. Such an event will occur in the Holy Land. The Son of Man will sit on the throne of His glory in Israel.

    Joel is speaking of the future after God has become incarnated as the God-man Jesus. And Joel is speaking of the whole church age beginning from Pentacost to the second coming of Christ. During this whole time whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    I will not spend too much effort here to talk about the incarnation.

    My burden is to defend Romans 10:13 from those who desire to eliminate it from the word of God as a promise we may trust in.
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    11 Feb '10 15:311 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Of course Jesus had not been incarnated during the lifetime of Joel. By the time Peter gave his gospel message God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

    Notice that the astronomical signs such as blood color of the moon and such things also did not occur at the time of Pentacost. So Joel's prophecy must span over a considerable long time.

    b] from those who desire to eliminate it from the word of God as a promise we may trust in.
    Yes Jay i also accept that the prophecy has far reaching consequences,

    (Joel 2:28-29) . . .And after that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy. As for your old men, dreams they will dream. As for your young men, visions they will see.  And even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit.

    is this not a prophecy with regard to pentecost? i dont say this to distract you from your purpose, just to show that there seems to have been an initial fulfilment and like you say a later fulfilment.

    Why would someone want to eliminate it from the word of God? Even if they wanted to i dont think they could.
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    11 Feb '10 15:491 edit
    Just a minute Robbie.

    First:



    Joel's prophecy says that God would pour out of His Spirit upon all flesh. Why is there Pentecost ? It is because God wanted to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

    Now one only needs to open the mouth and say, "O Lord, O Lord Jesus" and the Spirit Who has been poured out will rush into the innermost being.

    The Holy Spirit is like light. As long as there is a crack light will come in. If you are in a dark room right next to a well lighted room, just a crack in the door of the dark room, will allow light to enter.

    If you drill a whole in the wall, as soon as the drill is taken out, the light enters through the hole. As long as there is an opening to the light of any kind, the light will enter in.

    God has poured out His Holy Spirit in these days upon all flesh. Whenever you call or say "O Lord Jesus, O Lord, Lord Jesus" the Holy Spirit begins to work within your heart. God Himself surrounding all flesh as the poured out Spirit will enter into even a small opening in the human heart.

    It is easy to receive eternal salvation by saying"O Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus".

    Paul says "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that is the word of faith which we proclaim,

    That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

    For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation.

    For the Scripture says, Everyone who believes on Him shall not be put to shame."


    One may feel ackward to call "Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus" at first. But the word of God says that no one who believes in Him will be put to shame.

    Paul goes on in verse 12 to say that the Lord Jesus is RICH ... RICHto ALL who call upon the name of Jesus.

    "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all and rich to all who call upon Him;

    For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Rom. 10:12,13)


    He is not poor and stinted and miserly. He is RICH to all who call "O Lord Jesus, O LOrd, O Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus"

    And whoever calls on His name shall have the rich justification by faith and the rich gift of eternal redemption and eternal life.
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    11 Feb '10 16:041 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Yes Jay i also accept that the prophecy has far reaching consequences,

    (Joel 2:28-29) . . .And after that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy. As for your old men, dreams they will dream. As for your young men, visions they will see.  And even on the menser ...[text shortened]... eone want to eliminate it from the word of God? Even if they wanted to i dont think they could.
    Whatever their reason, behind their reason is a spiritual battle.

    We Christians do not fight against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces. It is a spiritual evil which persuades men for whatever reason they may have, to oppose the revelation of the Bible.

    It is Easy to be Saved Forever.

    In the whole Gospel of John John stresses believing unto eternal life. It is hard to find the word repentence in connection with any verse in John telling man how to receive Christ as eternal life.

    This does not mean repentence is not needed for spiritual growth. It is for me to assert that faith in Christ plus NOTHING is the basic requirement to receive eternal salvation.

    Man has his idols. Man also has his additions to God's way which arise out of his crooked thinking. He adds many things to belief in Christ.

    It is not belief plus repentence.
    It is not belief plus baptism.'
    It is not belief plus your tears.
    It is not belief plus your desire to do better in the future.
    It is not belief plus speaking in tongues.
    It is not belief plus going from door to door to spread the word.

    It is believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead which the confession of "Lord Jesus" intrinsically implies. For why would you call on one whom you regard as dead?

    It is Easy to be Saved Forever by calling on the resurrected Lord Jesus.
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    11 Feb '10 16:10
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Whatever their reason, behind their reason is a spiritual battle.

    We Christians do not fight against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces. It is a spiritual evil which persuades men for whatever reason they may have, to oppose the revelation of the Bible.

    It is Easy to be Saved Forever.

    In the whole Gospel of John John stresses believi ...[text shortened]... regard as dead?

    It is Easy to be Saved Forever by calling on the resurrected Lord Jesus.
    ok, now i see your point, it was to establish that eternal life is a gift and that nothing on our part can attain that gift other than confession of Christ in our hearts. Is it not so?
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    12 Feb '10 12:461 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ok, now i see your point, it was to establish that eternal life is a gift and that nothing on our part can attain that gift other than confession of Christ in our hearts. Is it not so?
    I think you yourself have written it.

    Christ is the eternal life. The Son of God is the means by which God dispenses this eternal life into the believers:

    "And this is the testimony, that God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son.

    He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:11,12)


    [T]he life is the eternal life . To have the Son is to have "the life" which is the "eternal life". So to receive the Son is to receive the life.

    This life is also God Himself. It is God Himself dispensed into man to mingle with man. So John writes in addition:

    "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in Him and he in God."(1 John 4:15).

    So obviously to confess with the mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead is to receive the gift of eternal life which is in the resurrected Son.

    God abiding in the believer is the Son possessed by the believer which is also the possession of the gift of eternal life.

    This life is also "the life of God" because Paul writes that fallen man was "estranged ( alienated ) from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) .

    It is easy to receive the life of God and be saved from eternal punishment. It is as available as the air that surrounds us. It is in the name and the living Person of the Son of God. He became a eternal life giving Spirit.

    "... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
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    12 Feb '10 13:35
    What do you hope to achieve by typing all this?

    I'm curious.
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