it's a gift.....

Originally posted by knightmeister
Has anyone noticed yet how the idea of this simple gift seems to create such a stir? It's like we just find it offensive somehow or we are looking for the catch. It seems to go against our human standards of having to "earn" something or work for it. Mind you , don't expect God to conform to the way the world does things. The truth always seems wierd at first.

No, it's because you're ignoring Bible quotes and making up your own thing.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]I hear you say that it's "unconditional" at one turn, but in the next you spell out the conditions that are required. While it's probably comforting to believe it, Jesus seems to be saying something very different/

But is Jesus really saying something very different, ThinkOfOne? I hear a lot of talk from you about the "teachings of Jesus", but Is it really so difficult to believe the Good News and rejoice? Believe in Jesus.)[/b]

I don't remember your reading comprehension skills being so poor before. It's as if you're so focused on yourself, that you've become incapable of understanding what others are posting. I wonder if that affliction also makes it difficult for you to interpret scripture.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I hear you say that it's "unconditional" at one turn, but in the next you spell out the conditions that are required. Think of One------

How so? Yes , one must accept the gift in order to receive it but it's hardly a condition in the normal sense of the word. If I offer you a free drink out of my own generosity I am offering it unconditionally , per conditional)

God offers the drink even to those who he suspects will refuse it.

From your post:
"You cannot be 'pure' enough or humble enough to earn it...The ONLY part we play is being humble enough to accept it and receive it."

Just because you choose not to think of it as a condition doesn't mean it isn't.

Just like this poster from the Chess Forum who struggled with the idea that telling someone that they can time-out their opponent still constitutes "advice":
"I'm talking about messaging someone, telling them they can time their opponent out.

no advice."

Originally posted by knightmeister
Has anyone noticed yet how the idea of this simple gift seems to create such a stir?

There must be a name for this kind of fallacy. The "ooh, I'm really causing controversy, so I must be right!" fallacy, perhaps.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I don't remember your reading comprehension skills being so poor before. It's as if you're so focused on yourself, that you've become incapable of understanding what others are posting. I wonder if that affliction also makes it difficult for you to interpret scripture.

Sorry, but I'm tired of your perpetual beef with nominal Christians.

Of course there are immature Christians; there always has been and always will be. Do you know why? Because there's always going to be new Christians. No one is made perfect overnight. Sanctification is a lifelong process of learning to be constantly dependent on the Lord and growing into the stature of Christ. Every Christian is located somewhere along that spectrum, from the new Christian who is still largely dominated by sin to the church elder overflowing with God's love and grace. What they all have in common, though, is that they believe in Jesus Christ, are saved for eternity, and are being progressively sanctified.

If I were you, I would stop wasting my energy criticizing other weak people like myself, people who already happen to be going to heaven no matter what complaint I might level against them, and start thinking about my own shortcomings and my own salvation. Self-righteousness will get you nowhere with God (trust me, I know).

Originally posted by no1marauder
I don't care if you adopt a "respectful" tone or not. But simply ignoring the points that others raise in order to just parrot the same ole "Praise Jesus/Super Duper God" thingy makes a mockery of a forum.

"Everything is possible for him who believes"

Mark 9:23

Originally posted by knightmeister
I have reason to believe such a man might exist. How about you tell me a bit more about him and why I have to go to Nairobi. Can I phone him? Is there any way to contact him at all? I have only 15% belief that he's in Nairobi , is that enough to start with? Can you ask him for me?

Your faith is week. As I told you, you must get to Nairobi before you get any more information.
Now compare that to your frequent requests for me to believe in Jesus before I can find out more about him or understand what he is offering. Consider also that I have 0% belief in him, not the 15% you have in my guy. You are extremely gullible by the way and also are ready to put faith into something based on your own guesses - I never said anything about him being in Nairobi yet you have 15% faith that he is there! What would it take to push that over 50%? If I raised the amount to 2 million dollars? What if I offered salvation? Would you fly to Nairobi for salvation?

Originally posted by knightmeister
However I still maintain that it is not fairly given and is the equivalent of you offering me a drink and omitting to tell me that it is waiting for me on a table halfway around the world.---whitey-----

Surely 13 hours on a flight watching spiderman 3 is worth your salvation....

Maybe, depending what salvation is. But you were offering me a free beer and I don't even drink.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Maybe, depending what salvation is. But you were offering me a free beer and I don't even drink.

Your choice...isn't that great!!!???

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
From your post:
"You cannot be 'pure' enough or humble enough to earn it...The ONLY part we play is being humble enough to accept it and receive it."

Just because you choose not to think of it as a condition doesn't mean it isn't.

Just like this poster from the Chess Forum who struggled with the idea that telling someone that they can time-out the out messaging someone, telling them they can time their opponent out.

no advice."

"You cannot be 'pure' enough or humble enough to earn it...The ONLY part we play is being humble enough to accept it and receive it." -------------------KM--------

Just because you choose not to think of it as a condition doesn't mean it isn't.---------- ToOne---------------------

RESPONSE------

I 'm surprised . I thought you might understand. It's actually quite clear cut if you apply some thought to it. Here goes...

Having the humility to accept the gift is not a condition as such because God does not say " Ok Think of One if you can show me some humility I will THEN offer you this free gift" THAT would be a conditional offer based on your humility.

It's actually more like this " Ok , Think of One here is this gift I am giving you right now with no conditions attached , the offer is free and on the table at this very moment. I do not expect anything of you before I give you this offer , infact I have already given it "

Now , you will do one of two things . You might say (humbly) "Thanks God I accept this unconditional offer as yours " OR " No thanks God I can't quite believe it , come back in a few years please"

Your humility in accepting the offer is not a condition of the offer being made in the first place because the gift has already been given (eg jesus) BUT in order to receive it you will need to humbly accept it.

It's a neccessary condition of your heart in order for acceptance to take place but it is not a condition on which the offer itself rests.The offer itself is still unconditional and has been made unconditionally long before you even decide to accept it or not. Are you getting this?

Thus humility is not a condition that God places on us BEFORE he makes the offer , humility is just a necceesary part of accepting it that God cannot bypass even if he wanted to. He can shower his unconditional love on you as much as he likes but if one will not accept it what can he do?

I can buy you a whole pile of drinks with absolutely no strings attached . Whether you drink them or not is nothing to do with my generosity.


(BTW- Could you have not thought this through yourself - it's pretty clear isn't it? Come on!)

Originally posted by twhitehead
Your faith is week. As I told you, you must get to Nairobi before you get any more information.
Now compare that to your frequent requests for me to believe in Jesus before I can find out more about him or understand what he is offering. Consider also that I have 0% belief in him, not the 15% you have in my guy. You are extremely gullible by the way and ...[text shortened]... mount to 2 million dollars? What if I offered salvation? Would you fly to Nairobi for salvation?

You are extremely gullible by the way and also are ready to put faith into something based on your own guesses - I never said anything about him being in Nairobi yet you have 15% faith that he is there! What would it take to push that over 50%? If I raised the amount to 2 million dollars? What if I offered salvation? Would you fly to Nairobi for salvation?---whitey-------


Why is it gullible? Will I die in Nairobi? If I am wrong then I just fly back don't I? A calculated risk one might say given what I stand to gain. Did your man give any asurances or can you offer me anything before I get on the plane?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Your faith is week. As I told you, you must get to Nairobi before you get any more information.
Now compare that to your frequent requests for me to believe in Jesus before I can find out more about him or understand what he is offering. Consider also that I have 0% belief in him, not the 15% you have in my guy. You are extremely gullible by the way and ...[text shortened]... mount to 2 million dollars? What if I offered salvation? Would you fly to Nairobi for salvation?

Now compare that to your frequent requests for me to believe in Jesus before I can find out more about him or understand what he is offering.---whitey----

No-one expects you to believe in him exactly. That's a straw man you are starting to erect there. What you would need to have is at least 1% of you that thinks " mmmm maybe there just might be something worth finding out here" That 1% though isn't totally down to you it would be the work of the spirit.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
There must be a name for this kind of fallacy. The "ooh, I'm really causing controversy, so I must be right!" fallacy, perhaps.

You've got it the wrong way round. I knew I was right before the controversy started and fully expected one. Your comment probably says more about you than me.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Now compare that to your frequent requests for me to believe in Jesus before I can find out more about him or understand what he is offering.---whitey----

No-one expects you to believe in him exactly. That's a straw man you are starting to erect there. What you would need to have is at least 1% of you that thinks " mmmm maybe there just might be so ...[text shortened]... nding out here" That 1% though isn't totally down to you it would be the work of the spirit.

Come on TW surely you can see that KM makes sense!!!

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Did not the Lord Jesus command us to forgive [b]and forget?[/b]

I have forgiven him. I am simply pointing out his hypocrisy. I see little point in entering into a debate with someone about respect for dialogue who uses such language and doesn't see the need to apologise. I am not that bothered if he apologises or not except it would give me a sense of where he's at. Forgiving and forgetting doesn't equate to being a passive doormat.