13 Aug 12
Originally posted by jaywillI'll ask you the same if I can.No I absolutely do not believe in the "eternal Son".
Well, do you believe that the Son of God is eternal then ?
The term (like "triune god" ) is not in the Bible anywhere. The son was begotten, the Word wasn't.
I don't think the Son being begotten is a contradiction to the Word being the Son from eternity. I s ...[text shortened]... ning the proper use of the term Trinity.
"So did Jesus have a beginning and could he ever had died and cease to exist?"
Originally posted by galveston75
I'll ask you the same if I can.
"So did Jesus have a beginning and could he ever had died and cease to exist?"
"So did Jesus have a beginning and could he ever had died and cease to exist?"
I am probably going to concentrate my replies to divegeester, as you Robbie and I have discussed the Triune God before.
The man Jesus was born. That certainly was a beginning.
The man Jesus died on the cross. That certainly was an end of human life as we know it. But He also resurrected from the dead. Amen.
However, we could also say that Jesus was the "I AM" Who was so before Abraham came into being (John 8:58)
" The Jews then said to Him [Jesus], You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham ?
JESUS ... said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am.
So they picked up stones to throw at Him [Jesus], but Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple."
That the man Jesus, being under 50 years of age, taught that He was the "I AM", the same God as appeared to Moses in Exodus 3, is a concept that you will have to take up with Jesus Christ Himself.
Don't blame us Christians. We are just believing what Jesus said.
13 Aug 12
Originally posted by jaywillI believe only God is eternal
Well, do you believe that the Son of God is eternal then ?
I believe that Jesus was/is the "invisible God made visible"
I believe they are in essence, one and the same
For God to become mortal he had to extend himself "his right arm laid bare"
He became the veil of flesh that was torn
But it was HIM no one else, no other "person"
All the glory belongs to him
Everything else; doves decending, Jesus praying to the Father, Jesus dying, crying, sorrowing etc is just the "mystery of God in Christ"
It is perfectly clear to me.
God is one. I'll never accept otherwise.
13 Aug 12
Originally posted by jaywillSo again, before Jesus was a man, did he have a begining? And if he did have an existance before he became a man, could he have died at any time in that existance?"So did Jesus have a beginning and could he ever had died and cease to exist?"
I am probably going to concentrate my replies to divegeester, as you Robbie and I have discussed the Triune God before.
The man Jesus was born. That certainly was a beginning.
The man Jesus died on the cross. That certainly was an end of human life as we ...[text shortened]... Christ Himself.
Don't blame us Christians. We are just believing what Jesus said.
13 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75His body did, obviously; it was born and was executed so it died.
Sorry but I'm still a little confused with your belief.
So did Jesus have a beginning and could he ever had died and cease to exist?
I'm pretty clear here about what I believe, so not sure why you are confused.
13 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75I think the Gospel of John explains that.
So again, before Jesus was a man, did he have a begining? And if he did have an existance before he became a man, could he have died at any time in that existance?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
(John 1:1-5 NKJV)
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(John 1:14 NKJV)
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(John 1:17-19 NKJV)
13 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75My last post to you contained a completely relevant and appropriate reply.
So again, before Jesus was a man, did he have a begining? And if he did have an existance before he became a man, could he have died at any time in that existance?
Read it again and there really should be no need to repeat.
Don't blame us Christians. We are just believing what Jesus said.
As for what could have happened before the incarnation ? I don't need to entertained endless hypotheticals.
Jesus is not Michael the archangel. So we don't need to go over that debate again.
13 Aug 12
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterI am not asking you to believe that God is not one.
I believe only God is eternal
I believe that Jesus was/is the "invisible God made visible"
I believe they are in essence, one and the same
For God to become mortal he had to extend himself "his right arm laid bare"
He became the veil of flesh that was torn
But it was HIM no one else, no other "person"
All the glory belongs to him
Everyt in Christ"
It is perfectly clear to me.
God is one. I'll never accept otherwise.
He is three - one.
I believe God is the Father - Son - Holy Spirit.
And I have no problem with using the phrases Triune God or Trinity.
If some brothers don't like to use these terms, its Okay with me.
It is easy though, sometimes, for Bible readers to misunderstand each other or lack the utterance to explain their enjoyment of God.
13 Aug 12
Originally posted by divegeesterThat is the false doctrine of modalism.
No I absolutely do not believe in the "eternal Son". The term (like "triune god" ) is not in the Bible anywhere. The son was begotten, the Word wasn't. The Son will "hand over all things to the Father"; at that time the office of God's Sonship will cease to exist. It doesn't mean Jesus will cease to exist because for the essence of God is one ...[text shortened]... dwells the FULLNESS of the Godhead in bodily [b]form" - it is just a "form".[/b]
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
(Colossians 1:15-20 NKJV)
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
(Colossians 2:9-10 NKJV)
Jesus as the son of man had a beginning. But the Son of God that dwells in Him bodily has no beginning of days, for His Spirit is begotten directly from the Spirit of God that is eternal.
13 Aug 12
Originally posted by jaywillYes I see your answer and knew that was your reply. But it's a simple question which you only partually answerd.
My last post to you contained a completely relevant and appropriate reply.
Read it again and there really should be no need to repeat.
Don't blame us Christians. We are just believing what Jesus said.
As for what could have happened before the incarnation ? I don't need to entertained endless hypotheticals.
Jesus is not Michael the archangel. So we don't need to go over that debate again.
Could Jesus have died at anytime before he came to earth as a man?
13 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsThanks for your comment but it still doesn't answer my question of could Jesus have died at anytime before he became a man on earth?
I think the Gospel of John explains that.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did no ...[text shortened]... only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(John 1:17-19 NKJV)
14 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75This is the same way Robbie starts his arguments, asking some simple question, drawing us in. If you have another shoe to drop, drop it already. Let's hear your entire argument. Why go through this involved process to draw out of us what you want us to say so you can then shoot it down? Leading the witness much? You're acting like a lawyer. Just spit it out already.
So your saying he has always been immortal?