28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayFor which word [in the OP] is this block of generic ideology the definition?
God being Holy and us sinners are not a good mix for us. The sacrifices were setup as a temporary stop gap means to approach God, but they were only temporary and did nothing for a restoration between God and man. Jesus became that solution, so anything not Jesus Christ isn't acceptable. In the NT it was even fought that Jesus alone was what we needed, and ...[text shortened]... on. He went to far as calling those that were attempting to add to faith in Christ to be cursed.
28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayCan "through Jesus" mean 'by following his commandments and living the kind of life Jesus wants humans to live'?
How do you define "through" in this context?
Many can go to, arriving is another thing. It isn't a system of doing right He is speaking
about, it is His person. We enter in Christ, because He alone is the door.
Originally posted by @fmfJohn 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." What precise meanings or definitions do you attach to the words "way" and "comes to" and "through" in this verse?
If a Christian interprets that as follows...
"Being the kind of person I [Jesus] want you to be is truly the way I want you to live your life and you will be rewarded with eternal life if you live your life in accordance with my commands"
...are they not entitled to have this understanding of John 14:6 and to lead their lives accordingly ~ and thus be recognized as followers of Jesus?
28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @fmfJesus being the Way means He has become the means by which we enter, the path we
Why does "the way" mean "nothing we do without Christ will be effectual towards approaching God"? Why doesn't "the way" mean "obey my commandments"?
take, the door we pass through, He personalizes it. It isn't Jesus and X whatever you
want X to be.
If we were required to do anything else, than Jesus wouldn't be the way. He came to save
sinners not call the righteous, so it isn't us being good enough we cannot get good
on our own. He makes us righteous by His actions/blood and gives us His Life and from
there we fulfill works of righteousness being restored by His grace through faith. His
blood cleans us of sins, that is required to believe in, if it were just obey commands
nothing would have been needed from Christ to die and rise from the dead. God could
always say obey me, and did, but people kept failing until the restoration to God through
Jesus Christ.
28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @fmfGod is Holy, we are not, God is righteous we are not, and as soon as sin entered into the
Why does "comes to God" have to mean "to be able to speak and have Him hear"? Why can't "comes to God" mean live your life in the way Jesus commanded people to?
picture we were dead in our sins. The dead cannot make themselves alive again, until
Jesus did it and that for us. You can go to God without Jesus, speak to God without
Jesus but you would be doing it as someone dead in their sins, unholy, unrighteous, with
out any means to get God to listen to you. Now, since the way to God has been opened
for us by Jesus because God sent Him we can go forgiven of our sins, righteous by the
works of Jesus Christ and faith in Him, not in our own righteousness which as I said was
sinful.
Ephesians 2:1
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayCan "the way" and "the means" and "the path" and "the door" all be defined by a follower of Jesus as meaning the approach they must take to living their lives i.e. obeying his commandments?
Jesus being the Way means He has become the means by which we enter, the path we take, the door we pass through, He personalizes it. It isn't Jesus and X whatever you
want X to be.
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou aren't defining the words which is what the OP is about. You are laying down tranches of recited dogma. Define the words. Yes, maybe you will be able to attach your dogma to those words to your own satisfaction, but if you simply define the words perhaps there is a way that other followers of Christ can interpret John 14:6 differently from you and still be followers of Christ. Or do they have to subscribe to your tranches of recited dogma and just accept that you won't define the words without hanging your personal ideology on them?
I have no idea what you are asking.
28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @fmfIt is a part of it, making Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior means He is your Lord and
Can "through Jesus" mean 'by following his commandments and living the kind of life Jesus wants humans to live'?
obeying a result of that. It is also an after the fact result we don't become saved by
obeying, we are saved to obey. Our obedience is part of our walk with God, our coming
to God is through Jesus' blood He shed for us. Throughout OT and NT people have
strived to obey God, but nothing within them changed they remained sinners, dead in
their sins, but now there is new life, being born again, we become new creature in Christ.
Without God's Spirit we don't belong to God.
28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayAnother tranche of dogma.
It is a part of it, making Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior means He is your Lord and
obeying a result of that. It is also an after the fact result we don't become saved by
obeying, we are saved to obey. Our obedience is part of our walk with God, our coming
to God is through Jesus' blood He shed for us. Throughout OT and NT people have
strived to obe ...[text shortened]... eing born again, we become new creature in Christ.
Without God's Spirit we don't belong to God.
Can a follower of Jesus believe that "through Jesus" means 'by following Jesus' commandments and living the kind of life Jesus wants humans to live'?
Originally posted by @kellyjayWhich of the words in the OP is this supposedly the definition of?
He makes us righteous by His actions/blood and gives us His Life and from there we fulfill works of righteousness being restored by His grace through faith. His blood cleans us of sins, that is required to believe in, if it were just obey commands nothing would have been needed from Christ to die and rise from the dead.
All I am hearing here is something along the lines of I don't actually have to do anything I don't actually have to do anything I don't actually have to do anything I don't actually have to do anything ... fair enough, if that's what you get from John 14:6, so be it. But if a follower of Jesus thinks that John 14:6 is telling people "the way" to get to the afterlife is to follow His commandments and refrain from "sin", do you recognize them as fellow followers of Jesus?
28 Jul 18
Originally posted by @fmfI'm still not a 100% on what you are attempting to ask, I'll lay the fault with me.
You aren't defining the words which is what the OP is about. You are laying down tranches of recited dogma. Define the words. Yes, maybe you will be able to attach your dogma to those words to your own satisfaction, but if you simply define the words perhaps there is a way that other followers of Christ can interpret John 14:6 differently from you and still be ...[text shortened]... and just accept that you won't define the words without hanging your personal ideology on them?
I will say that I cannot change the Word to suit me, I cannot alter it to make my way of
thinking line up with what the text says. I don't get to pick and choose which scripture are
valid for me and which are not. So if the Word clearly says something, those are the
Words I live by. If I put my own personal twist on them, I run the risk of altering them to
suit me. Does this mean I'm only reciting dogma for you, possible, but that is the safest
place to be. Adding to, or subtracting from scripture is not the goal, its taking it as is what
is called for.
So if the scripture singles out specific ways to, or declares this is true everything else is
not, I'll go with scripture.