Originally posted by @kellyjayNo, as far as I can tell, you have been dodging it. Is ... "Being the kind of person I [Jesus] want you to be is truly the way I want you to live your life and through this you will be rewarded with eternal life, by which I mean come to God, if you live your life in accordance with my commands" ... a Christian interpretation of John 14:6?
Didn't we just discuss this?
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Originally posted by @fmfNo, that specific text centers on Jesus being who He is, and what that means when
No, as far as I can tell, you have been dodging it. Is ... "Being the kind of person I [Jesus] want you to be is truly the way I want you to live your life and through this you will be rewarded with eternal life, by which I mean come to God, if you live your life in accordance with my commands" ... a Christian interpretation of John 14:6?
going to God. You are adding meaning to something that is found elsewhere in scripture,
just stick with that text words alone, it is telling you the context and covering the subject matter
which is Jesus. Nothing in that texts says "being the kind of person...", it also not saying,
"live the way I want you to live.", there was also no commands in that text. Without a
doubt those things are found elsewhere, that text is short, sweet, and to the point.
Originally posted by @kellyjayI think that may be exactly what those words mean. It's a straightforward text with a straightforward meaning. Your interpretation seems awfully convoluted.
Nothing in that texts says "being the kind of person...", it also not saying, "live the way I want you to live."
Originally posted by @fmfSo when Jesus says, "I am the way" he isn't saying, He is the way, in your way of thinking
I think that may be exactly what those words mean. It's a straightforward text with a straightforward meaning. Your interpretation seems awfully convoluted.
what that REALLY MEANS IS, live like I (Jesus) wants us too, obey...and so on!
The text cannot mean He is simply talking about Himself, because He said, "I am the Way."
You spend a lot of time not reading what is there, instead reading what you want to see.
Originally posted by @kellyjayI am the way = obeying me is the way
So when Jesus says, "I am the way" he isn't saying, He is the way, in your way of thinking
what that REALLY MEANS IS, live like I (Jesus) wants us too, obey...and so on!
The text cannot mean He is simply talking about Himself, because He said, "I am the Way."
You spend a lot of time not reading what is there, instead reading what you want to see.
Sounds admirably straightforward to me.
Makes more sense than the contortions that you need to get to your rather anaesthetizing 'Think The Think And You Are Forgiven' philosophy.
Originally posted by @fmfMy suggestion:
I am the way = obeying me is the way
Sounds admirably straightforward to me.
Makes more sense than the contortions that you need to get to your rather anaesthetizing 'Think The Think And You Are Forgiven' philosophy.
I am the way = obeying me is the way
Your suggestion:
I am the way = Our sins cut us off from God, when Jesus died the curtain of the temple was torn from top to bottom. Our sins no longer cut us off from God. We were dead in our sins before God without hope, Jesus changed that being the Life, in Christ we are given the Life of God again, where as before we were all dead in our sins. Singling Himself out as the Way means nothing we do without Christ will be effectual towards approaching God. Our sins separated us from God, the entire OT and NT scripture is all about God working it out righteously for our walk with God to be restored. In every sense of the word, to be able to speak and have Him hear. To come to Him and ask for a relationship, a restoration of fellowship and family. Jesus being the Way means He has become the means by which we enter, the path we take, the door we pass through, He personalizes it. It isn't Jesus and X whatever you want X to be. If we were required to do anything else, than Jesus wouldn't be the way. He came to save sinners not call the righteous, so it isn't us being good enough we cannot get good on our own. He makes us righteous by His actions/blood and gives us His Life and from there we fulfill works of righteousness being restored by His grace through faith. His blood cleans us of sins, that is required to believe in, if it were just obey commands nothing would have been needed from Christ to die and rise from the dead. God could always say obey me, and did, but people kept failing until the restoration to God through Jesus Christ. God is Holy, we are not, God is righteous we are not, and as soon as sin entered into the picture we were dead in our sins. The dead cannot make themselves alive again, until Jesus did it and that for us. You can go to God without Jesus, speak to God without Jesus but you would be doing it as someone dead in their sins, unholy, unrighteous, with out any means to get God to listen to you. Now, since the way to God has been opened for us by Jesus because God sent Him we can go forgiven of our sins, righteous by the works of Jesus Christ and faith in Him, not in our own righteousness which as I said was sinful. It is a part of it, making Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior means He is your Lord and obeying a result of that. It is also an after the fact result we don't become saved by obeying, we are saved to obey. Our obedience is part of our walk with God, our coming to God is through Jesus' blood He shed for us. Throughout OT and NT people have strived to obey God, but nothing within them changed they remained sinners, dead in their sins, but now there is new life, being born again, we become new creature in Christ. Without God's Spirit we don't belong to God. I'm still not a 100% on what you are attempting to ask, I'll lay the fault with me. I will say that I cannot change the Word to suit me, I cannot alter it to make my way of thinking line up with what the text says. I don't get to pick and choose which scripture are valid for me and which are not. So if the Word clearly says something, those are the Words I live by. If I put my own personal twist on them, I run the risk of altering them to suit me. Does this mean I'm only reciting dogma for you, possible, but that is the safest place to be. Adding to, or subtracting from scripture is not the goal, its taking it as is what is called for. So if the scripture singles out specific ways to, or declares this is true everything else is not, I'll go with scripture. It is a relationship with Christ, He personalized it, in Christ we have our Hope. Following His Spirit we can live the way He wants, do the works He has prepared for us. Outside of Christ we are running around unchanged sinners on the inside walking in our flesh and the scripture points out that anyone living in the flesh cannot please God, nor do they belong to Him. Following His Spirit will mean our lives will reflect the fruit of the Spirit, again if we walk in the flesh, other fruit will be manifest in our lives. If God has a meaning behind the scripture and I screw it up putting my own twist on it, that I'm twisting God's scripture. If it says some will suffer, than I believe they will suffer, if it says some will be saved, I believe some will be saved. When we start adding to, or attempt to connect dots that were not meant to be connected, just to get out of the scripture what we want to see, just to justify our pet doctrine we do damage to ourselves. that specific text centers on Jesus being who He is, and what that means when going to God. You are adding meaning to something that is found elsewhere in scripture, just stick with that text words alone, it is telling you the context and covering the subject matter which is Jesus. Nothing in that texts says "being the kind of person...", it also not saying, "live the way I want you to live.", there was also no commands in that text. Without a doubt those things are found elsewhere, that text is short, sweet, and to the point.
And that's you saying you...are "taking the words and subject matter for that text to mean only what it says nothing more", is it?
Originally posted by @fmfOf course. That interpretation matches the rest of scripture where Jesus says over and over that if you want eternal life follow the commandments.
I am the way = obeying me is the way
Sounds admirably straightforward to me.
Makes more sense than the contortions that you need to get to your rather anaesthetizing 'Think The Think And You Are Forgiven' philosophy.
Originally posted by @fmfYou see that you are changing the text in your explanation? The word obey isn't there
I am the way = obeying me is the way
Sounds admirably straightforward to me.
Makes more sense than the contortions that you need to get to your rather anaesthetizing 'Think The Think And You Are Forgiven' philosophy.
you are putting it there. It may seem straightforward to you, but if you can create words
that are not there to make the text to mean what you want, why wouldn't it be both
admirably and straightforward to you, you created it.
Originally posted by @kellyjayThe way = to obey. To obey is the way. Jesus is the way - he has given you his commandments - obey them. Live your life the Jesus way.That's the way. It's the central message of the Bible. The thousands of words that you used to explain what you want "the way" to mean aren't there, either. You are loading up the simple verse with thousands of highly ideological and self-serving words that aren't there.
You see that you are changing the text in your explanation? The word obey isn't there
you are putting it there.
Originally posted by @kellyjayJohn 14:6 is what it is, KellyJay. It means what it means. The words are what the words are. It says what it says. No amount of opaque and fanciful verbiage will turn it into the OSAS cop out you want it to be. 😉
It may seem straightforward to you, but if you can create words that are not there to make the text to mean what you want, why wouldn't it be both admirably and traightforward to you, you created it.
Originally posted by @fmfI think you have added a few more words to my way of reading the text too, more than a
My suggestion:
[b]I am the way = obeying me is the way
Your suggestion:
I am the way = Our sins cut us off from God, when Jesus died the curtain of the temple was torn from top to bottom. Our sins no longer cut us off from God. We were dead in our sins before God without hope, Jesus changed that being the Life, in Christ we are given the L ...[text shortened]... aking the words and subject matter for that text to mean only what it says nothing more", is it?[/b]
few actually. I'm content with just the text, all of the additional stuff is from you when you
add to the text, or you pulled together my answers to your questions, or from else where!
If it isn't in the text it isn't in the text.
When asking me specific questions you got specific answers, but from the start my
response was Jesus was talking about Himself.
You asked questions I answered them, my answers to your questions are just that
answers to your questions nothing more. I can give you reason about a lot of things,
but that doesn't mean I get to change the text to make it mean what I want, which is
what you are doing.
My views on that text have not changed from what I told you at the start, read the text a
book is not required to see He is talking about Himself.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Originally posted by @fmfI don't believe in OSAS, so again you are twisting things into things not true.
John 14:6 is what it is, KellyJay. It means what it means. The words are what the words are. It says what it says. No amount of opaque and fanciful verbiage will turn it into the OSAS cop out you want it to be. 😉