1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Apr '13 13:351 edit
    John 3:16

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
    that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
    (AKJV)

    http://godvine.com/bible/john/3-16

    You're probably familiar with this address from brief exposure
    to billboards and bumper stickers. Here's an opportunity to view the words
    up close and personal. For those interested, the site page
    commentaries may also be helpful.
  2. Joined
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    07 Apr '13 13:53
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]John 3:16

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
    that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
    (AKJV)

    http://godvine.com/bible/john/3-16

    You're probably familiar with this address from brief exposure
    to billboards and bumper stickers. Here's an opportunity to view the words
    up close and personal. For those interested, the site page
    commentaries may also be helpful.[/b]
    For me, probably one of the most important scriptures. Thx.
  3. Cape Town
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    07 Apr '13 16:16
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]John 3:16

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
    that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
    (AKJV)

    http://godvine.com/bible/john/3-16

    You're probably familiar with this address from brief exposure
    to billboards and bumper stickers. Here's an opportunity to view the words
    up close and personal. For those interested, the site page
    commentaries may also be helpful.[/b]
    Oddly enough no theist is willing to tell me what it means. I have asked many many times, but it seems theists like to make vague, nice sounding statements, but are unwilling to explain what they really mean.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    07 Apr '13 16:24
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Oddly enough no theist is willing to tell me what it means. I have asked many many times, but it seems theists like to make vague, nice sounding statements, but are unwilling to explain what they really mean.
    It means what it says. What is there to explain?
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    07 Apr '13 17:03
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    It means what it says. What is there to explain?
    What do 'not perish' and 'everlasting life' actually mean? I am quite sure that I know people who 'believed in him' that have 'perished', by the dictionary definition of the word.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Apr '13 17:131 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead

    What do 'not perish' and 'everlasting life' actually mean? I am quite sure that I know people who 'believed in him' that have 'perished', by the dictionary definition of the word.
    "What do 'not perish' and 'everlasting life' actually mean? I am quite sure that I know people who 'believed in him' that have 'perished', by the dictionary definition of the word." [twhitehead]

    "For God so loved - This does not mean that God approved the conduct of men, but that he had benevolent feelings toward them, or was "earnestly desirous" of their happiness. God hates wickedness, but he still desires the Happiness of those who are sinful. "He hates the sin, but loves the sinner." A parent may love his child and desire his welfare, and yet be strongly opposed to the conduct of that child. When we approve the conduct of another, this is the love of complacency; when we desire simply their happiness, this is the love of benevolence.

    The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:

    1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.
    2. All people were in a hopeless condition.
    3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.
    4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.
    5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.

    "That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.

    "His only-begotten Son - See the notes at John 1:14. This is the highest expression of love of which we can conceive. A parent who should give up his only son to die for others who are guilty if this could or might be done - would show higher love than could be manifested in any other way. So it shows the depth of the love of God, that he was willing. to give his only Son into the hands of sinful men that he might be slain, and thus redeem them from eternal sorrow." [Barnes' Notes on John 3:16]
    -
  7. Cape Town
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    07 Apr '13 17:57
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "For God so loved ....
    The world ....
    "That he gave - ....
    "His only-begotten Son - .....
    I hope there is more coming, because you explained (or at least attempted to) every part of the verse except the bit I asked about.
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    07 Apr '13 18:173 edits
    ... Deleted
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    07 Apr '13 18:22
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What do 'not perish' and 'everlasting life' actually mean? I am quite sure that I know people who 'believed in him' that have 'perished', by the dictionary definition of the word.
    Not perish as in eternal death. those who reject the free gift will be cast in the Lake of fire to perish. Interestingly, if one perishes or ceases to exist, he/she cannot burn forever because I would think you would need eternal life to accomplish that.

    Everlasting life as in raised from the dead to everlasting life. We all will die one day, when Jesus returns, those who believe will receive everlasting life.
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    07 Apr '13 18:411 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I hope there is more coming, because you explained (or at least attempted to) every part of the verse except the bit I asked about.
    Please read, "Clarke's Commentary on John 3:16". [same link]
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    07 Apr '13 18:411 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What do 'not perish' and 'everlasting life' actually mean? I am quite sure that I know people who 'believed in him' that have 'perished', by the dictionary definition of the word.
    Are you honestly saying you do not understand what "perish" and "everlasting life" mean in this context? Honestly.
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    07 Apr '13 19:12
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Are you honestly saying you do not understand what "perish" and "everlasting life" mean in this context? Honestly.
    Yes, honestly. I have asked it over and over and over on this forum and I never get an explanation. I get a lot of vagueness, but no specifics. Notice how checkbaiter talks of being 'raised from the dead' but doesn't explain what this means.
    If a person grows old and looses all their memories and are later 'raised from the dead', then what is the relationship between the new raised entity and the person who died (with no memory). Does the new entity have memories? Does it have character? Does it think like a human, or is it something different? Does it have a body, with hormones etc, or some other system?
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    07 Apr '13 20:152 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Yes, honestly. I have asked it over and over and over on this forum and I never get an explanation. I get a lot of vagueness, but no specifics. Notice how checkbaiter talks of being 'raised from the dead' but doesn't explain what this means.
    If a person grows old and looses all their memories and are later 'raised from the dead', then what is the relati ...[text shortened]... or is it something different? Does it have a body, with hormones etc, or some other system?
    I don't think any one knows for sure. Some speculate that we will have bodies free of defects, will be at our prime age, whatever that is. We will have no evil thoughts, and yes we will have memory too...all speculation, here is what the bible says from 3 different versions...it is the best I can do, unless someone else has more input...
    1 Cor 15:35-49

    A Glorious Body

    35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?" 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain — perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

    39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

    40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

    46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
    NKJV

    1 Cor 15:33-54

    33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God — I say this to your shame.

    35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

    42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

    If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

    50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
    NIV

    1 Cor 15:35-44

    35 Some skeptic is sure to ask, "Show me how resurrection works. Give me a diagram; draw me a picture. What does this 'resurrection body' look like?" 36 If you look at this question closely, you realize how absurd it is. There are no diagrams for this kind of thing. 37 We do have a parallel experience in gardening. You plant a "dead" seed; soon there is a flourishing plant. There is no visual likeness between seed and plant. 38 You could never guess what a tomato would look like by looking at a tomato seed. What we plant in the soil and what grows out of it don't look anything alike. The dead body that we bury in the ground and the resurrection body that comes from it will be dramatically different.

    39 You will notice that the variety of bodies is stunning. Just as there are different kinds of seeds, there are different kinds of bodies — humans, animals, birds, fish — each unprecedented in its form. 40 You get a hint at the diversity of resurrection glory by looking at the diversity of bodies not only on earth but in the skies — 41 sun, moon, stars — all these varieties of beauty and brightness. And we're only looking at pre-resurrection "seeds" — who can imagine what the resurrection "plants" will be like!

    42 This image of planting a dead seed and raising a live plant is a mere sketch at best, but perhaps it will help in approaching the mystery of the resurrection body — but only if you keep in mind that when we're raised, we're raised for good, alive forever! 43 The corpse that's planted is no beauty, but when it's raised, it's glorious. Put in the ground weak, it comes up powerful. 44 The seed sown is natural; the seed grown is supernatural — same seed, same body, but what a difference from when it goes down in physical mortality to when it is raised up in spiritual immortality!
    (from THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson. All rights reserved.)
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    07 Apr '13 20:55
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Yes, honestly. I have asked it over and over and over on this forum and I never get an explanation. I get a lot of vagueness, but no specifics. Notice how checkbaiter talks of being 'raised from the dead' but doesn't explain what this means.
    If a person grows old and looses all their memories and are later 'raised from the dead', then what is the relati ...[text shortened]... or is it something different? Does it have a body, with hormones etc, or some other system?
    Well my understanding is that "perish" refers to what the Bible calls the second death which is basically what atheists think happens at our temporal death. Everlasting life is of course life after death. If you are looking for the spiritual mechanics of these processes then I'm afraid I can't help.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    07 Apr '13 21:17
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What do 'not perish' and 'everlasting life' actually mean? I am quite sure that I know people who 'believed in him' that have 'perished', by the dictionary definition of the word.
    Okay, you have an example of something physical perishing, like a rotten apple or the decaying flesh of a dead dog. Now, if it was possible for the physical body to stay alive forever that would be physical everlating life. So I am sure you understand what it means from that point of view, because God has given you the examples, and as you said you see it happening, right?

    What you have not seen is a physical body that does not die and perish at some point. This is what the resurrection of the body is all about. Jesus gave mankind an example of that by taking on flesh and dying, but His body was raised from the dead in 3 days and nights to eternal life without experiencing corruption and perishing.

    However, our physical body will die and perish. But by believing on Christ we can look forward to the resurrection of the dead at the end of this world, when our soul is given an incorruptible body that will not perish like our present bodies and only our pleasant memories will be restored to those bodies that will not die.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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