Justice and Hell

The forms of punishment that I know and understand of are for the following possible reasons:
1. To make people fear to repeat the mistake.
2. To deter others from making the same mistake.
3. To keep dangerous people away from other people so as to keep the other people safe.
4. Revenge or spite.
5. Unjust punishment where the person "punished" is not guilty of anything.

If God sends a person to Hell, what is the motive? It looks closest to no 4. which is hardly justice.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The forms of punishment that I know and understand of are for the following possible reasons:
1. To make people fear to repeat the mistake.
2. To deter others from making the same mistake.
3. To keep dangerous people away from other people so as to keep the other people safe.
4. Revenge or spite.
5. Unjust punishment where the person "punished" is no ...[text shortened]... sends a person to Hell, what is the motive? It looks closest to no 4. which is hardly justice.

Among the other things that I don’t believe in (like a personal God and divine writ—re my reply to you in the other thread) is some kind individual after-life with reward/punishment, heaven/hell. On the other hand, if I did, I’m not sure how unjust I’d think it would be to drop, say, Adolph Hitler into the hell-spot for a good spell. But, then again, it wouldn’t change anything, so I guess you’d have to call it revenge.

Now, if there was reincarnation (which I also do not believe in), then maybe a visit to hell for some folks along the way might accomplish at least number 1....

Originally posted by twhitehead
The forms of punishment that I know and understand of are for the following possible reasons:
1. To make people fear to repeat the mistake.
2. To deter others from making the same mistake.
3. To keep dangerous people away from other people so as to keep the other people safe.
4. Revenge or spite.
5. Unjust punishment where the person "punished" is no ...[text shortened]... sends a person to Hell, what is the motive? It looks closest to no 4. which is hardly justice.

What is your conception of why people end up in Hell?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
What is your conception of why people end up in Hell?

I dont believe in hell, partly because it makes no sense to me. It is clearly a very large part of Christianity and yet many Christians I have talked to say they dont believe in it or redifine it. Others seem to believe that the only reason for following God is to escape Hell.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I dont believe in hell, partly because it makes no sense to me. It is clearly a very large part of Christianity and yet many Christians I have talked to say they dont believe in it or redifine it. Others seem to believe that the only reason for following God is to escape Hell.

You misunderstand me - I wasn't asking whether you believe in Hell or not. Your initial post makes some presuppositions about what Hell is and why people end up there. I was just asking you to clarify what those presuppositions are.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
You misunderstand me - I wasn't asking whether you believe in Hell or not. Your initial post makes some presuppositions about what Hell is and why people end up there. I was just asking you to clarify what those presuppositions are.

The only "presupposition" that logically flows from his post is that Hell is punishment. Is it not?

Originally posted by no1marauder
The only "presupposition" that logically flows from his post is that Hell is punishment. Is it not?

Well, if you say it is specifically punishment, it straight off it begs the question: What is the alternative?
What would happen if god did not do anything? Where would you be?

Originally posted by JadeMantis
Well, if you say it is specifically punishment, it straight off it begs the question: What is the alternative?
What would happen if god did not do anything? Where would you be?

LH wanted to know what the "presuppositions" of the post were. I find your questions rather bizarre if one believes in an all powerful, all knowing God.

Originally posted by no1marauder
LH wanted to know what the "presuppositions" of the post were. I find your questions rather bizarre if one believes in an all powerful, all knowing God.

Why?
Surely to view hell as a specific punishment there has to be alternatives that are being assumed. Surely it is relevant to know what these are as they have a bearing on what precisely hell firstly IS and secondly the mechanism by which someone ends up there.

Originally posted by JadeMantis
Why?
Surely to view hell as a specific punishment there has to be alternatives that are being assumed. Surely it is relevant to know what these are as they have a bearing on what precisely hell firstly IS and secondly the mechanism by which someone ends up there.

What would happen if god did not do anything? Where would you be?


Answer: Whatever God wanted. Wherever God wanted you to be.

Your questions don't make sense; an all-powerful being can do anything he wants - what sense does it make to talk of alternatives?

Originally posted by no1marauder
What would happen if god did not do anything? Where would you be?


Answer: Whatever God wanted. Wherever God wanted you to be.

Your questions don't make sense; an all-powerful being can do anything he wants - what sense does it make to talk of alternatives?

Then what sense does it make to talk about the original post either?

You cannot discuss an alternative without discussing what it is an alternative to.

Originally posted by JadeMantis
Then what sense does it make to talk about the original post either?

You cannot discuss an alternative without discussing what it is an alternative to.

You're ridiculous; YOU were the one who wanted to talk about alternatives. The original poster was interested in why God would send people to Hell. He was looking for a reason based on standard purposes of punishment. If you don't want to talk about THAT subject, what are you posting here for??

Originally posted by twhitehead
The forms of punishment that I know and understand of are for the following possible reasons:
1. To make people fear to repeat the mistake.
2. To deter others from making the same mistake.
3. To keep dangerous people away from other people so as to keep the other people safe.
4. Revenge or spite.
5. Unjust punishment where the person "punished" is no ...[text shortened]... sends a person to Hell, what is the motive? It looks closest to no 4. which is hardly justice.

Why do you think #4 in particular? Why can't punishment be a reason in and of itself: A penalty imposed for wrongdoing?

Originally posted by Halitose
Why do you think #4 in particular? Why can't punishment be a reason in and of itself: A penalty imposed for wrongdoing?

Retribution. Do you punish your children just as a "penalty imposed for wrongdoing"?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Retribution. Do you punish your children just as a "penalty imposed for wrongdoing"?

I meant it in the sense that it would follow logically from the act of wrongdoing, e.g. you jump from a cliff therefore you would fall.