1. Joined
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    01 Oct '10 10:281 edit
    Originally posted by lausey
    I am not convinced Joe actually exists.
    Neither am I.
    But I am betting there are so many religious nut idiots like that fictitious Joe that one of them is bound to be called “Joe”.
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    01 Oct '10 19:48
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    The christians, are fundemental about pushing error onto everyone...I am presenting truth from the wisdom of Vedanta which is not error. (black and white)

    For you to understand what I just said, you would have to travel the path of spirituality, until your acceptance of superstitious world beliefs where eradicated, then you will see the difference in f ...[text shortened]... st Vedanta teachings.

    Until you explore and study Vedanta, you will not know the difference.
    Once again a post from you that, with some minor teaks, could have been written by a fundamentalist Christian:

    The [vedantists], are fundemental about pushing error onto everyone...I am presenting truth from the wisdom of [Christianity] which is not error. (black and white)

    For you to understand what I just said, you would have to travel the path of [Christianity], until your acceptance of superstitious world beliefs where eradicated, then you will see the difference in [vedantan] teachings as against [Christian] teachings.

    Until you explore and study [Christianity], you will not know the difference.
  3. Standard memberDasa
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    01 Oct '10 23:56
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    Neither am I.
    But I am betting there are so many religious nut idiots like that fictitious Joe that one of them is bound to be called “Joe”.
    The cheating scientist has something to say, does he!......lets all hear his scientific explanation, of the existence of the universe and galaxies, and everything contained within.....and in exact detail, and dont leave anything out, because you are a scientist, and have all the test tubes and telescopes at your disposal, and I dont.
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    02 Oct '10 00:04
    A horse cant see sideways through blinkers.

    Vishu has Vedanta blinkers on. Others have their religous ones on - once you are blind to other possibilities you forget they are there (like sunglasses on your head after many hours)

    ANd yes - his post read EXACTLY like one written by a Christian Creationist.
  5. Standard memberAgerg
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    02 Oct '10 00:05

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  6. Standard memberAgerg
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    02 Oct '10 00:072 edits
    Q Hullo Joe, glad you could make it.
    A No problem, I have been very busy this week. rehearsing vish's lines

    Q What have you been up to?
    A. I have just come from the 2010 International Design Award presentations in Hollywood.

    Q. What can you tell us about that Joe?
    A. Well every year we judge all of the terrific designs in technology, science, industry and the arts. You're conflating artistic and technical (lumping technology, science, industry) designers...creatives and technical persons are like chalk and cheese (I should know having had to deal with the former in my printing days)...Hollywood is for creatives

    Q So what was the design that took first place Joe?
    A. Well it was a hard decision, because there where so many great ideas, but the winner was a mind reading device, that you wear on your head, that knows what channel you want to change on your TV…and that means we no longer need to pick up the remote control, and push the buttons, its fantastic, you just have to think of the channel and it changes right before your eyes.I see your stooge, sorry..."scientist" here is setting you up for the tired old watchmaker argument

    Q. Well Joe, that’s certainly is a great design, but do you think its really necessary, and did it cost much to create this device, and how much will one cost to own?
    A. Actually it only took 17 scientists 3 years to design, at a bargin cost of 1.2 billion dollars, and if you want to be the lucky owner of “The Channel Changing Device” you can buy them from Tandy for only $1299.Looks like Joe is billy bulls***ing here. Given the final RRP of 1.3K dollars we must not lose sight of the costs in getting it to market; this with the suggested research and development cost means the organisation behind this contraption would have to sell many millions of this product just to recoup their expenditures; and this given it's price far far outstrips it's value!! These scientists would have had their funding cut long before it reached the 1.2 billion mark.

    Q. Joe, being a self confest atheist, in a previous interview, you said that scientists don’t recognize that the universe suggest design, but you have clearly applauded the efforts of the designers that created this thingo, why is that Joe? like I said, the watchmaker argument. The universe is no more designed than turds are designed; that it exists as it does is the principle of least action (this can be applied to evolution - the mutations that occur within a given species will vary but some collections of them will increase the efficiency of a given member of this species in harvesting food/evading predators/traversing it's environment/etc... and increase it's probability of surviving to reproduce (whereby the next generation are 'lucky' recipients of some favourable collection of mutations). Other mutations on the otherhand may decrease the efficiency in which a given creature copes with it's environment and it's probability of surviving to reproduce lessens. Applied to a large number of creatures within a species the 'better' mutation is expected to win out in the long run; and going further, a system converges upon an optimal balance between available resources and things (species) that exploit them). Things like watches and supposed 'mind reading' devices need to be designed and crafted by humans for the simple reason that the optimal behaviour of 'particles' in the the universe is not such to yield these contraptions.

    A. We scientist are the keepers of truth, and with regards to the universe and everything in it, we haven’t been able to find a designer, and we have looked everywhere.Science doesn't admit the notion of a designer in the sense you refer to. No such search has ever been conducted in the name of science.

    Q Where have the scientists looked Joe?
    A. Well the Government gave us a lot of money, and we bought a big telescope, and we have been looking through it for a long time, and we haven’t seen a designer anywhere, and your welcome to come and look for yourself anytime you want, but you wont find a designer anywhere, because where scientists and we have already done all the looking required,. but feel free to give it another go.Again, no such search has taken place...Joe is merely the projection of your own ignorance here.

    Q. Joe, many people say that the universe and all the complex arrangements within, is proof that there is intelligent design behind it, and that alone is enough to conclude that there is a designer behind it, what do you say?
    A. We are the scientists, and are keepers of the truth, Spoken like a true theist and if we say there is no intelligent design behind the workings of the universe, then that must be the truth. Science doesn't in general make the statement that "there is no intelligent design" (similarly they don't state that God does not exist), instead they have no reason to accept the proposition; and zero application for it

    Q. But Joe, the “Channel Changer” was designed by many intelligent people, and it didn’t just create itself, so why do you claim the universe is any different?
    A. aaaah what! You're comparing apples and oranges; see my simplified argument above

    Q Joe why do you say the universe and all the complexity, is not a product of design, when your “Channel Changer” is definitely designed by a conscious living scientist? I think you'll find Joe said "aaaah what!"...there is clearly a hidden contract between these two characters.
    A. The universe and all the very, very, very, very, complex arrangements in it, is just a miracle, no sorry, I mean just a random accident, and that’s all there is to say. Andrew Hamilton has covered this and the rest of your, sorry...Joe the "scientist"'s answers
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    02 Oct '10 00:09
    Careful Agerg, posting fact in a fiction forum could lead you into trouble.
  8. Standard memberDasa
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    02 Oct '10 00:20
    So a watch needs a conscious intelligent desighn, but a galaxy doesnt...thats ignorance taken to infinitardum, something to expect from the cheating scientist.
  9. Standard memberAgerg
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    02 Oct '10 00:33
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    So a watch needs a conscious intelligent desighn, but a galaxy doesnt...thats ignorance taken to infinitardum, something to expect from the cheating scientist.
    My earlier cynicism and cowardice that initially compelled me to avoid accepting ThinkofOne's challenge is vindicated by your post here.
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    02 Oct '10 02:241 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Q Hullo Joe, glad you could make it.
    A No problem, I have been very busy this week. [b]rehearsing vish's lines


    Q What have you been up to?
    A. I have just come from the 2010 International Design Award presentations in Hollywood.

    Q. What can you tell us about that Joe?
    A. Well every year we judge all of the terrific designs in technology, scienc the rest of your, sorry...Joe the "scientist"'s answers[/b]
    [/b]
    Wow. Maybe there really isn't any backing down from a triple dog dare 🙂
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    02 Oct '10 02:26
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    So a watch needs a conscious intelligent desighn, but a galaxy doesnt...thats ignorance taken to infinitardum, something to expect from the cheating scientist.
    And yet another post that could have been written by a fundamentalist Christian.

    Can you spot the trend?
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    02 Oct '10 02:33
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    And yet another post that could have been written by a fundamentalist Christian.

    Can you spot the trend?
    You band together chistianity and Vedanta, because it serves your dishonest, fault finding menatality.
  13. Joined
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    02 Oct '10 02:362 edits
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    You band together chistianity and Vedanta, because it serves your dishonest, fault finding menatality.
    Are you implying that it couldn't have been written by a fundamentalist Christian?

    The same human frailties that have undermined the teachings of Jesus in Christianity seem to be at work in your brand of Vedanta also.
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    02 Oct '10 03:16
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Q Hullo Joe, glad you could make it.
    A No problem, I have been very busy this week.

    Q What have you been up to?
    A. I have just come from the 2010 International Design Award presentations in Hollywood.

    Q. What can you tell us about that Joe?
    A. Well every year we judge all of the terrific designs in technology, science, industry and the arts.

    Q ...[text shortened]... ou to understand, you should go and get a science degree, and then you will………..catch you later.
    My question to you is simply how did god get here? To follow your logic, god, who is has vastly more capabilities than a channel changer, clearly must have been designed. If god could be here without being designed, is it not possible that some other entities could also exist without being design? And then, to go one step further, if other entities can exist without being designed, god is really not necessary! 667joe
  15. Standard memberDasa
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    02 Oct '10 05:15
    Originally posted by 667joe
    My question to you is simply how did god get here? To follow your logic, god, who is has vastly more capabilities than a channel changer, clearly must have been designed. If god could be here without being designed, is it not possible that some other entities could also exist without being design? And then, to go one step further, if other entities can exist without being designed, god is really not necessary! 667joe
    After the LSD trip is over, can you ask the question again!
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