Most vile concept/aspect of christianity?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I'd say you're in no position to judge how an all-knowing, all-powerful deity can or should arrange things.

What puts you in such a position? You presume to know a great deal of these sorts of things.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Do you believe the hurricane was sent to New Orleans to punish the hedonists?

If not, what justice was served by that event?

No (and I've answered this in another thread).

Originally posted by lucifershammer
No (and I've answered this in another thread).

But the hurricane's effects were just, correct?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Since zygote Jesus is an entirely seperate entity from conception according to you, I don't see why that would matter.

I don't believe I've ever used the term "entirely separate".

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But the hurricane's effects were just, correct?

Yes.

Originally posted by no1marauder
It would be like in the Terminator where the guy is sent back in time by John Conner and winds up being John Conner's father in the past.

Oh, so it would be just like a fantasy that somebody made up.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I'd say you're in no position to judge how an all-knowing, all-powerful deity can or should arrange things.

Why not?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Then you must conclude that there is no free will, and that we merely suffer it as an illusion. You must conclude that we actually make no choices, because we have no alternatives. It is logically impossible for us to not do what God knows we will do, and what is logically impossible does not constitute an alternative.

From our perspective, we do have alternatives. God just knows which ones we'll choose.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Yes.

Interesting. Is that to say that those who lost their lives and properties deserved to? Did anybody suffer any consequences that they didn't deserve? Were any Catholic churches or priests harmed in the hurricane?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Oh, so it would be just like a fantasy that somebody made up.

Yes, but without cool cyborgs and lots of explosions.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why not?

Because you are none of those things - you would need to be all-knowing at the very least to be in a position to know God's reasons.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Interesting. Is that to say that those who lost their lives and properties deserved to? Did anybody suffer any consequences that they didn't deserve? Were any Catholic churches or priests harmed in the hurricane?

To say that the effects of the hurricane were just is not to say that the people who suffered individually deserved to.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
From our perspective, we do have alternatives. God just knows which ones we'll choose.

That why it's an illusion. That's just what an illusion is - something that is perceived differently than how it actually exists due to one's perspective. The magician's assistant isn't actually sawed in half - the magician sees this and the audience doesn't. The audience failing to perceive this doesn't mean that the assistant is actually sawed in half.

If our perspective of reality differs from God's, then ours must be the one in error. If God knows what we will choose, then for us to do otherwise is a logical impossibility. Logical impossibilities do not constitute alternatives. Agents with free will require alternative courses of action. We have none. Thus, we do not have free will.

The fact that we perceive that we have free will does not mean that we do. It's an illusion, according to your world view.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
To say that the effects of the hurricane were just is not to say that the people who suffered individually deserved to.

So, some people suffered without deserving to.

But you said that God does nothing without consideration of justice.

How can this be, unless mere acknowledment of injustice constitutes consideration of justice?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Because you are none of those things - you would need to be all-knowing at the very least to be in a position to know God's reasons.

Why? I don't directly experience anyone else's thoughts, but I can logically try to figure out why they have done things. I can't fly, but I can figure out how something does. I've never been inside a star, but I understand (kinda) nuclear fusion.

Some why can't I use my natural reason to judge whether the actions of some entity are arbitrary and absurd?