movement to atheism

@kellyjay said
Would it undermine your world view?

My "world view" about the revelation of a creator god or gods? No, I don't think so.

@fmf said
My "world view" about the revelation of a creator god or gods? No, I don't think so.

So you if you find out a 6 or 7 thousand years old were true, it wouldn't change
your world view? I'm impressed, but don't know how you can square it with
evolution's common ancestor.

For me the process is more important than how long it takes.

@kellyjay said
So you if you find out a 6 or 7 thousand years old were true, it wouldn't change
your world view? I'm impressed, but don't know how you can square it with
evolution's common ancestor.

For me the process is more important than how long it takes.

I'm open minded about the existence of a creator god or gods, as I have said to you numerous times over the past 10 years or so. Even if there is one, if there's no interaction with it, and there's nothing at stake, what does it matter?

@fmf said
I'm open minded about the existence of a creator god or gods, as I have said to you numerous times over the past 10 years or so. Even if there is one, if there's no interaction with it, and there's nothing at stake, what does it matter?

Well, if you had interacted with Jesus Christ, you'd know that was what both the Old Covenant and New Covenants were all about, the creator coming into the universe He created. The thing is if you study the scriptures, you’d see that God was never received well by sinful man. God had to deal with our nature the whole time as He was making Himself known, people resisted Him as He was showing them who we were and who He was, it wasn’t pretty. The world morphed into polytheism, it was then God separated out a people by calling out one and through His offspring He was able to create a nation. All these exploits were done so that everyone would know it was God not natural causes.

He kept the blood lines of the family/nation pure by inserting them into a people who received them but made sure they would not blend by marriage with them. The Egyptians didn’t even like eating with them let alone marrying them. God when the time was right brought them out in away that only God could, causing them to pass through the water as a people. All these exploits were done so that everyone would know it was God not natural causes.

Yet these guys seeing all of this immediately started rebelling and resisting God, creating a golden calf, complaining and murmuring all the way, failing to accept God at His Word. He walked them through the desert 40 years before bringing them into the land He promised them. They rebelled again asking for a king over them which He gave, the kings for the most part did evil in God’s sight. But through David a promise was made through Him Christ would come. All these exploits were done so that everyone would know it was God not natural causes.

Even through times where they were scattered into other nations due to their sins, the blood lines were kept pure, so they knew who was and wasn’t related to them for priest hood duties and other things. Even when nations that defeated and carried them away were trying to intermarry with them, they managed to keep the bloodlines pure, otherwise promises through the blood lines would have been destroyed. After some time, Christ came. Then we enter this time where God’s Spirit is offered to those that want to turn to God. All these exploits were done so that everyone would know it was God not natural causes.

So, God offers His Spirit to all who would turn to Him at no cost we cannot offer God anything to be worthy of this, we must accept it as a gift. For what could we offer God for such a thing, the forgiveness of our sins and having God Himself entering our lives? If you are open minded and you are familiar with the scripture that says if you seek Him with all of your heart you will find Him, what is stopping you?

@kellyjay said
Well, if you had interacted with Jesus Christ, you'd know that was what both the Old Covenant and New Covenants were all about, the creator coming into the universe He created. The thing is if you study the scriptures, you’d see that God was never received well by sinful man. God had to deal with our nature the whole time as He was making Himself known, people resisted Him a ...[text shortened]... scripture that says if you seek Him with all of your heart you will find Him, what is stopping you?

Well, I'm not a Christian anymore, so this recitation of rote-learned religious stuff is wasted on me.

@kellyjay said
If you are open minded and you are familiar with the scripture that says if you seek Him with all of your heart you will find Him, what is stopping you?

Believing the kind of stuff you believe is behind me. Being open minded is what put it there.

@fmf said
Well, I'm not a Christian anymore, so this recitation of rote-learned religious stuff is wasted on me.

That doesn't matter what you were, it would be no different than working out a
very difficult math problem as soon as you realize there was a mistake you must
go back and start over. This isn't a thing where your devolving or hindering some
progress in life, its working out reality as is. If all you ever had was rote-learned
religious stuff, you should try the real thing it is so much better.

@kellyjay said
That doesn't matter what you were, it would be no different than working out a
very difficult math problem as soon as you realize there was a mistake you must
go back and start over. This isn't a thing where your devolving or hindering some
progress in life, its working out reality as is. If all you ever had was rote-learned
religious stuff, you should try the real thing it is so much better.

You're misreading the situation.

@fmf said
You're misreading the situation.

I cannot read something you don't write, so when I respond it is typically about the
things you say.

@kellyjay said
I cannot read something you don't write, so when I respond it is typically about the
things you say.

You are barking up the wrong tree here in a way that makes it seem like you've never read anything I've written.

@fmf said
You are barking up the wrong tree here in a way that makes it seem like you've never read anything I've written.

Odd isn't it, the thing I complain about with you is that you use things I don't say to argue with me, and you are complaining that I don't read what you write.

I see the world differently than you do, I don't internalize my beliefs as you do, I do not accept what is inside of me is the real debate and where the answers are. You come across to me as saying when I talk about God, it is the god I have made up along with all of my beliefs, for you they totally reside with in me alone.

I've been telling you that is not the case, I don't have a god I made up within that I formed, instead He is completely God, and is in complete control of the universe. He is the One who formed me, not the other way around. Now because this is how you present yourself to my understanding it leads me to believe you've never at any time experienced God outside of the one of your own making.

So when we speak to each other it is always with completely different perspectives on the topic, so our words don't mean the same thing sometimes even though we could be using the exact same verbiage. Because that happens points can go flying over either of our heads due to this difference of perspectives.

@kellyjay said
You come across to me as saying when I talk about God, it is the god I have made up along with all of my beliefs, for you they totally reside with in me alone.

I have never suggested you "made up" the Christian God.

@fmf said
I have never suggested you "made up" the Christian God.

What are you implying when you say my god figure? What are you implying when you tell me that there isn’t a real God? The ramifications are exactly that, those have such beliefs are nothing but completely false ideals. Those that have them might base theirs on previous beliefs of others, even so that makes anything each individual has nothing but a self generated delusion.

It also requires you alone are the single source of truth, you might agree with someone else’ views but only as you grasp them. You have no external support for your life to find boundaries or truth.

@kellyjay said
What are you implying when you say my god figure? What are you implying when you tell me that there isn’t a real God?

Your god figure is a supernatural creator being that you perceive and worship within the framework of a religious tradition. I wouldn't be an agnostic atheist if I believed your god figure was real.

@kellyjay said
The ramifications are exactly that, those have such beliefs are nothing but completely false ideals.

Most Christian "ideals" strike me as valid and admirable.