1. Cape Town
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    19 May '08 08:51
    In a recent thread I came across this:

    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    My "real values" would be to respond to someone who did me harm or insulted me by cutting off his head and ----ting down his neck. Another would be to exact revenge on another by going after his family, as that would likely hurt the offender more than anything I could do to him personally. There are MANY other things I would do if I had only myself to answer to, but it so happens that Christianity doesn't jive with "my values"; therefore, I do my best to jive with Christ's.

    My impression is that the poster follows Christ solely out of fear and a selfish desire to get eternal life. I am probably wrong about the above poster but lets assume I am right for arguments sake.
    If a person does the 'right thing' for the wrong reasons does he still get credit? If a person is doing the 'right thing' in order to get to heaven, wont Jesus see through it? If works do not in fact matter and all that matters is faith then why would a person whose nature is to cut of peoples heads choose to stop cutting?

    And the reverse, if "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" then does one not get credit for intentions but only for the result of ones actions?

    But then if I as an atheist do all the right actions but for the wrong reasons, why don't I get credit?
  2. Standard memberzozozozo
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    19 May '08 10:10
    i dont think anyone can answer these questions, because we simply dont know.
    Anyone ever came back from heaven/hell and told us how it was and why he/she went there?
    Anyone talked to God and had him explain all this?
    Didnt think so;(

    Maybe someone who reads alot in the bible can tell us what the book of tales tells us about it tho😛
  3. Cape Town
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    19 May '08 11:34
    Originally posted by zozozozo
    Anyone talked to God and had him explain all this?
    Didnt think so;(
    Lots of people claim that they have. For you to jump to "Didn't think so" implies that nobody is making such claims. Or do you simply take it as obvious that they are either lying or delusional about it.
  4. Standard memberzozozozo
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    19 May '08 15:56
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Lots of people claim that they have. For you to jump to "Didn't think so" implies that nobody is making such claims. Or do you simply take it as obvious that they are either lying or delusional about it.
    The second option, either lies or delusional untill they prove me different🙂
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    19 May '08 21:282 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    In a recent thread I came across this:

    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    [b]My "real values" would be to respond to someone who did me harm or insulted me by cutting off his head and ----ting down his neck. Another would be to exact revenge on another by going after his family, as that would likely hurt the offender more than anything I could do atheist do all the right actions but for the wrong reasons, why don't I get credit?
    people only do good because good behavior is rewarded. some people may say they do good because they want to but they are getting a reward either by feeling good about themselves, or others praising them. nobody does good things because they love god; its because they fear god.
  6. Standard memberzozozozo
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    19 May '08 22:20
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    people only do good because good behavior is rewarded. some people may say they do good because they want to but they are getting a reward either by feeling good about themselves, or others praising them.
    good point, i agree
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    20 May '08 02:59
    Originally posted by zozozozo
    good point, i agree
    its behavioral psychology basically
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    20 May '08 03:36
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    people only do good because good behavior is rewarded. some people may say they do good because they want to but they are getting a reward either by feeling good about themselves, or others praising them. nobody does good things because they love god; its because they fear god.
    You should rethink this. While I'd agree that the vast majority behave as you've outlined, there are those who "do good" simply because it's the right thing to do. Hopefully someday you'll be one of those people.
  9. weedhopper
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    20 May '08 03:41
    I follow Christ because He is the Son of God and without him, I have no hope. If you deem this a selfish desire for eternal life, so be it. But if I were selfish, I doubt I would want to share this bounty with others, and I do. You're right about works not factoring into salvation--however good works will be rewarded in heaven. Some "lights will shine brighter", so to speak. And the road to hell/good intentions isn't biblical, so I can't address that.
  10. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    20 May '08 03:44
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    I follow Christ because He is the Son of God and without him, I have no hope. If you deem this a selfish desire for eternal life, so be it. But if I were selfish, I doubt I would want to share this bounty with others, and I do. You're right about works not factoring into salvation--however good works will be rewarded in heaven. Some "lights will shine b ...[text shortened]... so to speak. And the road to hell/good intentions isn't biblical, so I can't address that.
    What a load of tosh. You are doing this out of pure, selfish greed, nothing more, nothing less.

    As for the "why would I want to share it with anyone else?" question, it is a non-question. Indeed, your holy book says you have to do it, if you want to get your reward.

    If you need a holy book to provide meaning for you, if you can't do it surrounded (hopefully) by people you love, in a world that has so much to offer, I pity your lack of self-worth and imagination.
  11. Cape Town
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    20 May '08 12:00
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    If you deem this a selfish desire for eternal life, so be it. But if I were selfish, I doubt I would want to share this bounty with others, and I do.
    So are you retracting your statement about your 'real values'? Are you admitting that you are actually a good person? Or are you not selfish because you are scared of God?

    And the road to hell/good intentions isn't biblical, so I can't address that.
    Are you incapable of talking about something unless it is in the Bible? Or are you saying that unless the Bible has an answer then there is no answer?
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    21 May '08 00:111 edit
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    I follow Christ because He is the Son of God and without him, I have no hope. If you deem this a selfish desire for eternal life, so be it. But if I were selfish, I doubt I would want to share this bounty with others, and I do. You're right about works not factoring into salvation--however good works will be rewarded in heaven. Some "lights will shine b so to speak. And the road to hell/good intentions isn't biblical, so I can't address that.
    The reason many would "deem this a selfish desire for eternal life" is precisely because it is. Teaching others that they should act just as selfishly isn't really a good thing.
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    21 May '08 01:41
    there are no "naturally good" people period, never have been, never will. people are good because they realize it pays off to be good. it is much easier to have peace than to have war. people are just naturally selfish.
  14. Standard memberscottishinnz
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    21 May '08 02:25
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    there are no "naturally good" people period, never have been, never will. people are good because they realize it pays off to be good. it is much easier to have peace than to have war. people are just naturally selfish.
    You continue to impress me EV. 😉
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    21 May '08 02:292 edits
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    there are no "naturally good" people period, never have been, never will. people are good because they realize it pays off to be good. it is much easier to have peace than to have war. people are just naturally selfish.
    Yes, there is a selfish nature to people. Like ignorance it's a nature that's best overcome. Overcoming that nature is the sign of maturity. Evidently this is something that you still need to learn.
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