1. Not Kansas
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    30 Jun '05 05:10
    Was impossible. It never happened.
    Pros? Cons?
  2. Standard memberNyxie
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    30 Jun '05 05:14
    Originally posted by KneverKnight
    Was impossible. It never happened.
    Pros? Cons?
    It's possible that it was a local event flood and that Noah took on two each of his local animals.
  3. Not Kansas
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    30 Jun '05 05:47
    Originally posted by Nyxie
    It's possible that it was a local event flood and that Noah took on two each of his local animals.
    Sounds reasonable, saves Noah from having to traverse the globe to save kangaroos and koalas, for example.
  4. Joined
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    30 Jun '05 05:51
    Originally posted by Nyxie
    It's possible that it was a local event flood and that Noah took on two each of his local animals.
    if your going to believe that? why even believe in it at all?
  5. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    30 Jun '05 11:25
    Originally posted by KneverKnight
    Sounds reasonable, saves Noah from having to traverse the globe to save kangaroos and koalas, for example.
    Sumerian Ballad of the Flood
    Ziusudra had a farm eieio
    and on this farm he had a barn eieio
    and in that barn he had some sheep eieio
    with a bah bah here and a bah bah there eieio
    here a sheep there a sheep etcetc o
    then a flood came , the barn did float eieio
    when it was done he killed a goat eieio

    that was fun to write ,,lol





  6. Standard membertelerion
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    30 Jun '05 14:03
    Originally posted by KneverKnight
    Sounds reasonable, saves Noah from having to traverse the globe to save kangaroos and koalas, for example.
    The animals came to him. You must have played that old Noah's Ark video game where Noah had to get the pairs before the 2-dimensional water rising from the bottom of the screen buried them (Unicorns are bonus! Crazy YEC's).

    I'd wonder about all the aquatic species that would surely die from the tremendous increase in turbidity. Did Noah take enormous aquariums onto the ark? How did he make sure to maintain the correct temprature for each one? Since these aquatic life could not help themselves onto the ark, he and his crew must have had deep sea diving skills that would make Jacque Cousteau green with envy. How do you coax a 150 ton blue whale into an aquarium? How do you move the aquarium onto the ship? WHen the rain stops, do you release the whale into the super mudpuddle that you float on? How exactly do you release it? What's it going to eat, give that the entire world population of krill is a small sample in a different aquariums somewhere on the ark?

    Consider another problem. Some fish would be crushed by the rapid increase in water pressure. Think of fish that dine on life on shallow sea beds. These fish would either have to continually withstand the additional force of over 29,000 ft of water or would have to make routine dives almost 29,000 ft to access their food supplies.

    Putting aside the overwhelming natural problems with the beginning of the flood story, I think what had to come after the water finally subsided is even more unbelievable. According to YEC's, the Flood was supposed to be so violent that it seperated continents. As implied before, a deluge of such proportions would make a giant muddle puddle. We all know what is left after muddles dry. That's right. Pairs of animals (more in the case of some species) exit the ark and before them is a giant mudflat which extends unbroken all the way to mudpuddle oceans. Undaunted and apparently unappetized, whole ecosystems, predators and prey alike, trek thousands of miles side by side, many crossing vast oceans together, until finally each group arrives at a particular, although in all ways unremarkable, spot on the mud globe. Upon reaching their new 'habitat,' the herbivores sit and wait for some sort of vegetation to grow back. Their natural predators are understanding of course and maintain their patient fast until the herbivores have time to recover.

    YEC's can believe the story really happened just the way it is described if they want, but they can never call it reasonable to do so. The only way a YEC literalist can maintain their position is to appeal to "God-magic." The mistake is that many try to offer explainations to make the literal account of the Flood story appear ground naturally. No one I've encountered has been able to defend the myth entirely on these grounds and invariably must always appeal to "Goddunit" when faced with some reasonable objection.


  7. Not Kansas
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    30 Jun '05 16:07
    Originally posted by telerion
    The animals came to him. You must have played that old Noah's Ark video game where Noah had to get the pairs before the 2-dimensional water rising from the bottom of the screen buried them (Unicorns are bonus! Crazy YEC's).

    I'd wonder about all the aquatic species that would surely die from the tremendous increase in turbidity. Did Noah take enormo ...[text shortened]... d invariably must always appeal to "Goddunit" when faced with some reasonable objection.


    True dat.
    BTW, nice avatar, that was Saddam's hero and as if a guy like that would give somebody like the Taliban a free hand eh?
  8. Standard membertelerion
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    30 Jun '05 17:00
    Originally posted by KneverKnight
    True dat.
    BTW, nice avatar, that was Saddam's hero and as if a guy like that would give somebody like the Taliban a free hand eh?
    True enough I suppose. The avatar was put up last night in honor of my admittance to the Socialist Party. I was made aware of this great honor by SVW. I shouldn't get a big head though. It appears the only person who is not a member of the Socialist Party is SVW himself.
  9. Standard memberDavid C
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    01 Jul '05 04:28
    Moreover, how does the flood proto-myth and the legend of Atlantis tie together? Can anyone dig the date 10,465 BCE? Where did the dynastic Egyptians and early Mesoamericans get that 3.14 number from, anyway? Sorry, I'm rambling now...better go get some sleep.
  10. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    01 Jul '05 04:39
    Originally posted by telerion
    True enough I suppose. The avatar was put up last night in honor of my admittance to the Socialist Party. I was made aware of this great honor by SVW. I shouldn't get a big head though. It appears the only person who is not a member of the Socialist Party is SVW himself.
    Was wondering you had Uncle Joe's photo?
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Jul '05 05:12
    Originally posted by telerion
    The animals came to him. You must have played that old Noah's Ark video game where Noah had to get the pairs before the 2-dimensional water rising from the bottom of the screen buried them (Unicorns are bonus! Crazy YEC's).

    I'd wonder about all the aquatic species that would surely die from the tremendous increase in turbidity. Did Noah take enormo ...[text shortened]... d invariably must always appeal to "Goddunit" when faced with some reasonable objection.


    Yea, a story where God acts, that is not allowed to have God act, must
    have something wrong with it.
    Kelly
  12. Not Kansas
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    04 Jul '05 07:01
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Yea, a story where God acts, that is not allowed to have God act, must
    have something wrong with it.
    Kelly
    OK fine, how did Noah get all the animals?
    Where did the water for the flood come from and where did it go?
    How did the animals get home again?
    This story is about a local flood, a global flood to a depth of 30,000 feet above sea level is impossible, there's not enough water here to do it and there never was.
    There sure is something wrong with this story, it never happened.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    04 Jul '05 07:212 edits
    Originally posted by KneverKnight
    OK fine, how did Noah get all the animals?
    Where did the water for the flood come from and where did it go?
    How did the animals get home again?
    This story is about a local flood, a global flood to a depth of 30,000 feet above sea le ...[text shortened]...
    There sure is something wrong with this story, it never happened.
    Noah got the animals that God sent, pairs of every kind, and seven
    of some.

    The water came from above and below the earth, and if you read a
    little earlier in the same book you will see that the whole planet was
    at one time covered with water, so I'd say there was enough.

    The animals, either walked, crawled, slithered, flew, or whatever else
    they had to do.

    The story says the whole earth was covered with water for a long
    time.

    The land mass that we are talking about for all we know was one
    large one, no one knows so I'd say the animals could get where
    ever they were going. I imagine that some direction given to the sets
    of animals as they left, just as it was given as they came.

    As far as it never happened, well, I believe it did, I could be wrong,
    but so could you. Why would you think it was impossible for water
    to cover the planet?
    Kelly
  14. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    04 Jul '05 07:341 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Yea, a story where God acts, that is not allowed to have God act, must
    have something wrong with it.
    Kelly
    From a Sumerian Tablet

    SEGMENT C
    ......seat in heaven. ...... flood. ...... mankind. So he made ....... Then Nintud ....... Holy Inana made a lament for its people. Enki took counsel with himself. An, Enlil, Enki and Ninhursaja made all the gods of heaven and earth take an oath by invoking An and Enlil. In those days Zi-ud-sura the king, the gudu priest, ....... He fashioned ....... The humble, committed, reverent ....... Day by day, standing constantly at ....... Something that was not a dream appeared, conversation ......, ...... taking an oath by invoking heaven and earth. In the Ki-ur, the gods ...... a wall. Zi-ud-sura, standing at its side, heard: "Side-wall standing at my left side, ....... Side-wall, I will speak words to you; take heed of my words, pay attention to my instructions. A flood will sweep over the ...... in all the ....... A decision that the seed of mankind is to be destroyed has been made. The verdict, the word of the divine assembly, cannot be revoked. The order announced by An and Enlil cannot be overturned. Their kingship, their term has been cut off; their heart should be rested about this. Now ....... What ......."approximately 38 lines missing
    SEGMENT D
    All the windstorms and gales arose together, and the flood swept over the ....... After the flood had swept over the land, and waves and windstorms had rocked the huge boat for seven days and seven nights, Utu the sun-god came out, illuminating heaven and earth. Zi-ud-sura could drill an opening in the huge boat and hero Utu entered the huge boat with his rays. Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before Utu. The king sacrificed oxen and offered innumerable sheep.
    too fragmentary for translation
    approximately 33 lines missing
    SEGMENT E
    "They have made you swear by heaven and earth, ....... An and Enlil have made you swear by heaven and earth, ......."
    More and more animals disembarked onto the earth. Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before An and Enlil. An and Enlil treated Zi-ud-sura kindly ......, they granted him life like a god, they brought down to him eternal life. At that time, because of preserving the animals and the seed of mankind, they settled Zi-ud-sura the king in an overseas country, in the land Dilmun, where the sun rises.
    "You ......."
    approximately 39 lines missing

    from a second Tablet

    That day Nintur wept over her creatures and holy Inanna was full of grief over their people; but Enki took counsel with his own heart. An, Enlil, Enki, and Ninhursaga had the gods of heaven and earth swear by the names of An and Enlil.
    At that time, Ziusudra was king and lustration priest. He fashioned, being a seer, the god of giddiness and stood in awe beside it, wording his wishes humbly.
    As he stood there regularly day after day something that was not a dream was appearing: conversation a swearing of oaths by heaven and earth, a touching of throats and the gods bringing their thwarts up to Kiur.
    And as Ziusudra stood there beside it, he went on hearing:
    "Step up to the wall to my left and listen! Let me speak a word to you at the wall and may you grasp what I say, may you heed my advice! By our hand a flood will sweep over the cities of the half-bushel baskets, and the country; the decision, that mankind is to be destroyed has been made".
    A verdict, a command of the assembly cannot be revoked, an order of An and Enlil is not known ever to have been countermanded, their kingship, their term, has been uprooted they must bethink themselves of that. Now... What I have to say to you...
    [lost account of Enki's advice to build a boat and load it with pairs of living things, and Ziusudra's compliance]
    All the evil winds, all stormy winds gathered into one and with them, then, the flood was sweeping over the cities of the half-bushel baskets for seven days and seven nights. After the flood had swept over the country, after the evil wind had tossed the big boat about on the great waters, the sun came out spreading light over heaven and earth.
    Ziusudra then drilled an opening in the big boat.
    And the gallant Utu sent his light into the interior of the big boat. Ziusudra, being king, stepped up before Utu kissing the ground before him. The king was butchering oxen, was being lavish with the sheep Barley cakes, crescents together with......he was crumbling for him juniper, the pure plant of the mountains, he filled on the fire and with a ...clasped to the breast he...
    [lost account of Enlil's wrath at finding survivor's and his mollification by Enki]
    You here have sworn by the life's breath of heaven the life's breath of earth that he verily is allied with yourself; you there, An and Enlil, have sworn by the life's breath of heaven, the life's breath of earth. that he is allied with all of you. He will disembark the small animals that come up from the earth!
    Ziusudra, being king, stepped up before An and Enlil kissing the ground. And An and Enlil after honoring him were granting him life like a god's, were making lasting breath of life, like a god's, descend into him. That day they made Ziusudra, preserver, as king, of the name of the small animals and the seed of mankind, live toward the east over the mountains in mount Dilmun.

    http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/
  15. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    04 Jul '05 07:36
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Noah got the animals that God sent, pairs of every kind, and seven
    of some.

    The water came from above and below the earth, and if you read a
    little earlier in the same book you will see that the whole planet was
    at one time covered with water, so I'd say there was enough.

    The animals, either walked, crawled, slithered, flew, or whatever else
    they ...[text shortened]... but so could you. Why would you think it was impossible for water
    to cover the planet?
    Kelly
    Because that much water doesn't exist on earth. Above it or below it.
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