Noah's Ark

Originally posted by telerion
That's not inconsistent with uniformitarianism, if that's where you're going with this. Scientists embrace the fact that the earth didn't always look as it does now. It's the laws of the universe that they don't like to monkey arou ...[text shortened]... have a control over you and your mind that is certainly not xtian.

Scientist embrace the fact that the earth didn't look as it does now?
Yet you mock my saying that the earth was more likely different
before and after the flood. The only differences between my saying
it and scientists is the time line, the cause.
As far as what you think being a Christian is, I'm not sure I know what
you believe that to be. You never answered me when I asked you,
yet you question me about being one.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Scientist embrace the fact that the earth didn't look as it does now?
Yet you mock my saying that the earth was more likely different
before and after the flood. The only differences between my saying
it and scientists is the time line, the cause.
As far as what you think being a Christian is, I'm not sure I know what
you believe that to be. You never answered me when I asked you,
yet you question me about being one.
Kelly

Uh . . . whoa.

Hold on there KJ. There's a lot that you're asserting here that isn't true. Re-read my post. I don't know how you got this wild stuff out of it.

Originally posted by telerion
Uh . . . whoa.

Hold on there KJ. There's a lot that you're asserting here that isn't true. Re-read my post. I don't know how you got this wild stuff out of it.

Okay pick out the points you disagree with, I may be wrong on some
of it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I agree, I am not at all happy about it either at times; however,
at times that is the correct answer. I believe God is real, God is
alive, God has changed my life, and is still working on me for
the good. (Thank God) I am aware that many don't want to
believe in God, some even are ashamed or embarrass of their own
beliefs, that happens. I believe in ...[text shortened]... h can affect things both great and small
in the world and in our own individual lives.
Kelly

Can you agree that God is no less real given a reading of Noah's flood that accepts that it was a local event? That ancient peoples didn't understand that rain is a cyclic phenomena?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Scientist embrace the fact that the earth didn't look as it does now?
Yet you mock my saying that the earth was more likely different
before and after the flood. The only differences between my saying
it and scientists is the time line, the cause.
As far as what you think being a Christian is, I'm not sure I know what
you believe that to be. You never answered me when I asked you,
yet you question me about being one.
Kelly

Scientist embrace the fact that the earth didn't look as it does now?

Perhaps if you mean this in the 5000 years ago context then I agree that the earth did look very similar to the way it does now, (not including all the lights and roads and satellites and such). If you mean it in general, as in scientists think that the earth has always looked the same then I could no disagree more.

Yet you mock my saying that the earth was more likely different
before and after the flood.

I don't mock that. The earth should look extremely different before and after the flood. That's the problem. We don't find any geological or biological evidence of a mass extinction/diluvian castostrophe just 5000 years ago. What I do mock, or at least snicker at, is the idea of thousands upon thousands of ecological systems moving simultaneously across vast mud plains (dry or wet hardly matters) and mud puddles (i.e. oceans). That's just one of the myriad of reasons why the Flood story has no grounding in empirical evidence. If your god did it, then fine. Gods in all sorts of stories have performed any number of wild miracles. I just don't believe it.

The only differences between my saying
it and scientists is the time line, the cause.

I don't understand this. If a disaster of the type and proportions you describe actually occured then there should be so much evidence of it lying around that every geologist would feel ashamed to deny it. The evidence for the Flood should be found along so many disciplines and within so many varying fields of science that even a kid in elementary school would no of it. It should be found in geology, archealogy, biology, chemistry, astrophysics, paleontology, and history just to name a few. As for the earth, it has been very different at times (Ice Ages for example), but this is neither here nor there in regards to the total lack of evidence for the Flood.[/b]


As far as what you think being a Christian is, I'm not sure I know what
you believe that to be. You never answered me when I asked you,
yet you question me about being one.

Such a task is generally always fruitless. You are looking for a specific phrase. Whether I supply it or not, you will find something that makes you doubt my true salvation. It might be because I rested in my own strength instead of the Lords, followed a false xtian sect, lived it only as ceremony, or just never really believed. I just really don't want to get into that. What I have been trying to say is that too many xtians think that they have to throw out science to believe. They think their faith can only exist if evolution is false, and so they listen to and parrot any jack fool who tells them so. I think that's a real tragedy given that whether God used evolution or not to create man should not be such a central tenet of a xtians faith.

That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Can you agree that God is no less real given a reading of Noah's flood that accepts that it was a local event? That ancient peoples didn't understand that rain is a cyclic phenomena?

If you accept everything in Noah's story except the fact that it was
a world wide flood, you accept God talking to Noah, drawing all
the local animals to Noah, and so on. You believe everyting else
within the story makes sense to you outside of the size of the flood?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you accept everything in Noah's story except the fact that it was
a world wide flood, you accept God talking to Noah, drawing all
the local animals to Noah, and so on. You believe everyting else
within the story makes sense to you outside of the size of the flood?
Kelly

I think that many Christians take this view without compromising their belief.
I'll ask you this: Is the story of Noah's Ark just a history of what happened, or does it have a message? If it does have a message, does the message change if the flood was local?

Originally posted by telerion
We don't find any geological or biological evidence of a mass extinction/diluvian castostrophe just 5000 years ago.

Isn't there some evidence in the glacial cores that there was a dramatic global climate shift around 3200 BCE? A very sudden one at that? Flash-frozen fauna, Oetzi (sp?) the Iceman and such?

Originally posted by KneverKnight
I think that many Christians take this view without compromising their belief.
I'll ask you this: Is the story of Noah's Ark just a history of what happened, or does it have a message? If it does have a message, does the message change if the flood was local?

It is for me, is God only powerful enough to do a little flooding or to
do everything He said He was going to do. Just a little local flood now
has God lying, and to weak to do what He said He was going to do, the
way He said He was going to do it.
Kelly

Genesis 6
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Was impossible. It never happened.
Pros? Cons?

Sorry to burst your bubble but the ficticious story of Noah has been known since the 1890's to have been stolen from the Babylonians. There was no ark or even a Noah.

In Love there is Life
Angela

Originally posted by caissad4
Sorry to burst your bubble but the ficticious story of Noah has been known since the 1890's to have been stolen from the Babylonians. There was no ark or even a Noah.

In Love there is Life
Angela

Oh wow, I didn't know, 1890 you say, wow, learn something new every
day.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Oh wow, I didn't know, 1890 you say, wow, learn something new every
day.
Kelly

Sarcasm does not become you. If you would bother to read frogstomp's post on page 1, the Sumerian deluge myth is quite clearly the basis from which Noah is derived.

Originally posted by KellyJay
It is for me, is God only powerful enough to do a little flooding or to
do everything He said He was going to do. Just a little local flood now
has God lying, and to weak to do what He said He was going to do, the
way He said He was going to do it.
Kelly

Genesis 6
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.



Spoken like a true brainwashed fanatic.

Originally posted by KellyJay
It is for me, is God only powerful enough to do a little flooding or to
do everything He said He was going to do. Just a little local flood now
has God lying, and to weak to do what He said He was going to do, the
way He said He was going to do it.
Kelly

Genesis 6
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the ...[text shortened]... air—for I am grieved that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

That's too bad then, you hold an untenable belief.
Two points why this is so: 1. Noah's flood never literally happened; there is no evidence for it and it is physically impossible. 2. The story originated with the Sumerians and I don't see anyone saying that Sumerian myth is divinely inspired.
You can dismiss point one with "Goddunnit"; but point two? Did Goddunnit in ancient Sumer?
One's beliefs are one's own business, but let's keep mythology out of science classes.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
That's too bad then, you hold an untenable belief.
Two points why this is so: 1. Noah's flood never literally happened; there is no evidence for it and it is physically impossible. 2. The story originated with the Sumerians and I don't see anyone saying that Sumerian myth is divinely inspired.
You can dismiss point one with "Goddunnit"; but point ...[text shortened]... umer?
One's beliefs are one's own business, but let's keep mythology out of science classes.

I was under the impression this is the "Spirituality" board, the belief
is just that a matter of faith as most of the Bible is. There are a lot
of things within the 'class room' that must all be accepted as a belief
because no one has seen them, nor will they ever see them.
Kelly