Obedience vs Disobedience

Originally posted by @fmf
No I didn't. I tackled it head on. You just breezed past it asking the same little set of questions over and over and over again and ignoring the responses you were getting.

If your response was made and is worth repeating I'm sure you would. You and I both know that if there is no objective moral standard that exists and has been revealed to us then it is impossible for you to know whether what you believe to be right and wrong really is right and wrong.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If all the physical laws of the universe don't apply to God what good reason do we have to assume that moral laws would apply to Him?

I am talking about moral laws. The "law" of gravity is not a law in the same sense, it's a description of physical circumstances.

Moral laws are standards or expectations to guide people in deciding good actions from bad actions.

To engage in wordplay like this over the two different uses of the word "law" is sheer sophistry. It's schoolboy debating stuff. You've been fed it by one of the web sites you often copy paste from i suppose.

My 'Do my A B C assertions have moral content' question is about morality not gravity.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If your response was made and is worth repeating I'm sure you would.

This is the punchline you arrive at time and time again. Well, I am not jumping through your troll hoop. Go back and read our threads.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You and I both know that if there is no objective moral standard that exists and has been revealed to us then it is impossible for you to know whether what you believe to be right and wrong really is right and wrong.

It's as if you haven't read any of my posts stretching back 18 months. Er, how does it go? ... You and I "both know"... [insert your side of our well documented and fully explained disagreement here] ... what kind of nonsense discourse is this?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
When you say 'moral' and you are referring to your subjective opinions of what is 'moral' and there is no real objective morality that exists, how is your opinion of what is 'moral' any more accurate than mine in the first place?

We have akready discussed this in depth. Why are you asking me again?

Originally posted by @fmf
I am talking about moral laws. The "law" of gravity is not a law in the same sense, it's a description of physical circumstances.

Moral laws are standards or expectations to guide people in deciding good actions from bad actions.

To engage in wordplay like this over the two different uses of the word "law" is sheer sophistry. It's schoolboy debating st ...[text shortened]... pose.

My 'Do my A B C assertions have moral content' question is about morality not gravity.

''Gravity' is know as the Universal law of gravitation'. It is universal yet it does not apply to God. Why then should "universal moral laws" apply to God? It you don't get the point so be it.

Who decides what the standards are that should guide people if not God?

Originally posted by @fmf
It's as if you haven't read any of my posts stretching back 18 months. Er, how does it go? ... You and I "both know"... [insert your side of our well documented and fully explained disagreement here] ... what kind of nonsense discourse is this?

If subjective morality is all there is then how do you know that your morals are better than mine? You can't know. This is a lost cause for you.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If subjective morality is all there is then how do you know that your morals are better than mine? You can't know.

We discussed this before. I explained my stance in detail. And here you are, holding up your hoop, asking me to go through it all again when you mostly just ignored my responses the first time round. Go back and look. Those "conversations" are still there.

Originally posted by @fmf
We have akready discussed this in depth. Why are you asking me again?

Because you seem to have forgotten that if a subjective morality is all there is, there is no objective way for you to compare your morals with anyone else's and say that yours are better. So this entire discussion would be worthless.

Originally posted by @fmf
We discussed this before. I explained my stance in detail. And here you are, holding up your hoop, asking me to go through it all again when you mostly just ignored my responses the first time round. Go back and look. Those "conversations" are still there.

Go ahead and pretend that your subjective opinions on morality are better than everyone else's subjective opinions on morality. Knock yourself out.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
''Gravity' is know as the Universal law of gravitation'. It is universal yet it does not apply to God. Why then should "universal moral laws" apply to God? It you don't get the point so be it.

Your wordplay over different meanings of the word "law" is a rhetorical gimmick. Not interested.

Moral laws are codes - rules - laws if you will - developed by human societies to govern interactions between people. It's got nothing to do with the "law" of gravity (or other technical descriptions of our physical environment) which have nothing whatsoever to do with the regulating of human responsibilities and rights.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Go ahead and pretend that your subjective opinions on morality are better than everyone else's subjective opinions on morality. Knock yourself out.

But I haven't claimed that my moral sensibilities are "better than everyone else's".

What are you claiming about yours? Better? Worse? Same?

I have made no such claim.

Originally posted by @fmf
Your wordplay over different meanings of the word "law" is a rhetorical gimmick. Not interested.

Moral laws are codes - rules - laws if you will - developed by human societies to govern interactions between people. It's got nothing to do with the "law" of gravity which have nothing whatsoever to do with human responsibilities and rights.

Within a Christian context, assuming that God created us and gave us moral laws by which we have to live. What do you think the (moral) laws were that God gave to Moses? Were they just suggestions? Or were they compulsory for everyone to follow?

Originally posted by @fmf
But I haven't claimed that my moral sensibilities are "better than everyone else's".

What are you claiming about yours? Better? Worse? Same?

I have made no such claim.

Are your morals better (better being an objective measurement) than Hitlers or not? If no objective morality exists how can you truthfully say that they are better? Think a little FMF, this is not rocket science.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Within a Christian context, assuming that God created us and gave us moral laws by which we have to live. What do you think the (moral) laws were that God gave to Moses? Were they just suggestions?

I think they were figments of that tribe's leadership's imagination and its calculations in terms of tribal governance, which is why they functioned as a means of social control and tribal identity.