Obedience vs Disobedience

Originally posted by @dj2becker
No person is inherently good. Everyone has done something bad, i.e (sinned) so therefore can you really say they are good? Do good people do bad things?

Yes, I am still able to say a person is good and does good things, even if they did something bad at some point. I have no problem with that.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I believe every human is created in the image of God, and any bit of goodness we may have comes from Him.

Down my road, there is a small orphanage and the devout and dedicated Muslims who run it are such good, kind and generous people, they must have literally saved the lives of hundreds of children and helped raise them well ~ I can scarcely think of any of my neighbours I have more respect and admiration for. You think all this is the result of your Christian god figure?

Originally posted by @fmf
Yes, I am still able to say a person is good and does good things, even if they did something bad at some point. I have no problem with that.

Sure you do. God though sees the motives of the heart and by His standards we all fall short of His glory.

Originally posted by @fmf
Down my road, there is a small orphanage and the devout and dedicated Muslims who run it are such good, kind and generous people, they must have literally saved the lives of hundreds of children and helped raise them well ~ I can scarcely think of any of my neighbours I have more respect and admiration for. You think all this is the result of your Christian god figure?

God can work through anyone. He is God after all.

Originally posted by @sonship
[b] What about the same question, now about jews? Are they hardhearted too? 'Yes' or 'No'?

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I'm sorry but I don't see a lot of profit in this line of back and forth.
My interest would be to talk about a softened and turned heart towards Chri ...[text shortened]...
Stats and degrees on whose hearts are hard and by how much, is not that important to me.[/b]

All of you that say that non-christians have harder hearts than christians say that christians are better people than non-christians. This is the same as racism.

Exchange non-christians to jews, then some of you hesitate, because to imply that christians are better than jews. This can be taken as anti-semitism.

For the sake of experiment. Exchange non-christians with black people, and we have definitively a racist matter.

All this put together is that everyone saying that non-christians have harder hearts than christians has rasism in their hearts. As the majority of you who are in favor to this heart thing shows that christianity is a religion of judgements - we are better than you, we have a softer heart, we are a better people.

So who have harder heart? Christians or non-christians? I say racists!

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Sure you do. God though sees the motives of the heart and by His standards we all fall short.

If you think all the good things I do are not down to me but are, instead, down to your god, then that's fine by me, as it is [in my view] harmless superstition, and doesn't have any negative impact on me.

Similarly, if you attribute the good things you do to a god figure, and you don't think you are [or can ever be] a good person without that god figure, then that seems OK too.

To me, as long as you behave in a morally sound way, I suppose it doesn't matter if there is some kind of vicarious element to how you conceptualize the way you have arrived at that state.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
God can work through anyone. He is God after all.

You believe your Christian god is somehow making Muslims run an Islamic orphanage in my neighbourhood?

Originally posted by @fmf
Yes, I am still able to say a person is good and does good things, even if they did something bad at some point. I have no problem with that.

Good and Evil are separate entities are they not? How can you say someone is good if they do evil things?

Originally posted by @fmf
You believe your Christian god is somehow making Muslims run an Islamic orphanage in my neighbourhood?

I believe there is one God. You should have figured that out by now.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Good and Evil are separate entities are they not? How can you say someone is good if they do evil things?

I don't see "evil" as an entity. "Good" is morally sound behaviour; it's not an "entity" either. People do good things and people do bad things. I don't see any credible reason to examine this fact through a prism of supernatural causality. It can be examined through the perspectives of psychology and sociology.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I believe there is one God. You should have figured that out by now.

So you believe Jesus is in some way present in that Islamic orphanage in my neighbourhood? Do you believe that Jesus might (if sonship and Eladar and Kellyjay are right) be intending to torture all the organizers and all the children who graduate from it for not believing in him?

Originally posted by @fmf
I don't see "evil" as an entity. "Good" is morally sound behaviour; it's not an "entity" either. People do good things and people do bad things. I don't see any credible reason to examine this fact through a prism of supernatural causality. It can be examined through the perspectives of psychology and sociology.

If 'good' and 'evil' are merely in the eye of the beholder and subjective then it means anyone can call anything good or evil as they see fit and no one's opinion is right or wrong.

Originally posted by @fmf
So you believe Jesus is in some way present in that Islamic orphanage in my neighbourhood? Do you believe that Jesus might (if sonship and Eladar and Kellyjay are right) be intending to torture all the organizers and all the children who graduate from it for not believing in him?

I believe that everyone who truly seeks God will find Him. There are countless testimonies of Jesus appearing to people of different faiths in visions.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If 'good' and 'evil' are merely in the eye of the beholder and subjective then it means anyone can call anything good or evil as they see fit and no one's opinion is right or wrong.

Well, we have already discussed this before. You know what my take is on it. If recourse to some kind of supernatural narrative gives you a sense of what is good and evil, then good for you. You're entitled to your personal opinion that that is the way it should be.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I believe that everyone who truly seeks God will find Him. There are countless testimonies of Jesus appearing to people of different faiths in visions.

This sidesteps what I have put to and asked you. They are Muslims and already have a god figure. Why would they be seeking the god figure that you just so happen to believe in?