Old Testiment law

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
i didn't see anything in your lengthy reasoning that disputed my claim. you're looking for a specific phrase, such a phrase you won't find. the entire new testament and christ's ministry is based on pacifism for both himself and his followers.

though you may try to use evil reasoning to justify disobeying christ when it comes to killing others, you w ...[text shortened]... a "christian" to go off on an adventure and murder his fellow humans for god and country.

Atheist, like yourself, seem good at using evil reasoning. The Trinity
doctrine is the best way to explain what the the Holy Bilbe has to say
about God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. But you are too influenced by
Satan to see it. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
Atheist, like yourself, seem good at using evil reasoning. The Trinity
doctrine is the best way to explain what the the Holy Bilbe has to say
about God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. But you are too influenced by
Satan to see it. 😏

You seem to be especially good at using stupid reasoning. This is not quite the same as evil reasoning as you dont have to be evil or influenced by a fictional character; you just have to be stupid.

i think ive asked about the "thou shalt not kill" law on here before and was told that is should be "thou shalt not murder" which opens up all sort of debate as its so vague (im suprised gods lawyers let that one through). so i would like to ask any christians who have the time to answer what they think the difference between killing and murder is?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i think ive asked about the "thou shalt not kill" law on here before and was told that is should be "thou shalt not murder" which opens up all sort of debate as its so vague (im suprised gods lawyers let that one through). so i would like to ask any christians who have the time to answer what they think the difference between killing and murder is?

It really is somewhat a moot point in the New Testament age. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All people are therefore in need of redemption and reconciliation to God.

Jesus made "You shall not murder" of the law of Moses even more lethal and penetrating. He says in Matthew that not only the outward action is wrong but the inner motive will land one in trouble at the judgment.

"You have heard that it was said to the ancients, You shall not murder, and whoever murders shall be liable to the judgment.

But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother Raca, shall be liable to the [judgment] of the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, Moreh, shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire." (Matt. 5:21,22)

You see here that when Christ came, He says in essence - "Forget about the act of murder (however you argue kill vs murder). Now that I have come I warn you that even to shout at someone "You Idiot, you worthless nucklehead, you stupid retard! ,,, etc." even that insult may be the cause of you being judged by God."

I am not saying that the murder verses killing in the ancient Hebrew is completely a non-issue. But I am trying to take away, as Christ does, any hope that the ambiguity of the matter will somehow shelter us from God's judgment.

Similar strengthening was done by Christ in the act of adultery. Forget about the outward action. The innermost motive in looking after another man's wife with lust in your heart may land me in trouble.

"You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that every one who9 looks at a woman in order to lust after her has ALREADY commited adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28)

The teaching of Jesus Christ compels us to throw ourselves into His grace. We simply cannot make it to do the will of God with this fallen nature of sin.


We need forgivenes from the guilt of sin and grace to empower us to overcome sinning. Christ is both.

We need to be saved and impowered from within by His powerful grace. The high standard of the kingdom of the heavens means that a we must seek to be as close to Jesus Christ as we can.

Originally posted by jaywill

"You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that every one who9 looks at a woman in order to lust after her has ALREADY commited adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28)

between the age of 13-20 i think i lusted after every woman i met. now at 35 its every other woman i meet!! but isnt that nearly all men? surly god means people who act upon their lusts have sinned? its a natural response to find woman attractive, being married does not make them unattractive and the human brain has decided if somebody is hot way before you have time to work out the moral implications. i dont know how old you are (or what sexual preference or sex) but are you telling me you have never looked at a married woman and thought she's a fine looking lady and if i were single id give her 30seconds of jaywill magic?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i think ive asked about the "thou shalt not kill" law on here before and was told that is should be "thou shalt not murder" which opens up all sort of debate as its so vague (im suprised gods lawyers let that one through). so i would like to ask any christians who have the time to answer what they think the difference between killing and murder is?

That was one ot the ten commandments written on stone by the finger
of God. They are different than the many laws and rules Moses later
made to govern the people. In the New Testament, Jesus quoted this
law of God as "You shall do no Murder." Murder is defined as killing
another person with malice. This is why Jesus said that if you were
angry with your brother enough to wish to do harm to him you are
in danger of that judgement. Killing someone in war is considered a
matter of duty and not murder. killing someone by accident or due to
self-defense is also not considered murder. Consult any lawyer for the
details. Also killing animals for food is not considered murder. It has
to do with the intent in your mind (the Holy Bible refers to this as the
heart, meaning the inner being of the person).

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
the phrase "all the time" is a figure of speech.

another way of saying is that is: as a matter of course, christians regularly use evil reasoning to disobey christ.

but you already knew that, you're just using some of that evil reasoning as a means of displaying your displeasure at this truth about christians being exposed.


[quote]
[quote]
e made the wrong ones.

Excellent summary. I think it clear that most christians ignore and/or rationalize away many teachings of christ. In their defense, there are so many contradictions in the bible, which make it easy to form massively different religious dogma. Yet, there are striking words of christ that are simply ingored. The right-wing social-conservative christian fundamentalists are the most egregious at ignoring teachings of christ.

And christians pick and choose what to focus and emphasize, such as Old Testament words that could be taken to attack homosexuality. By the way, some theologians think Paul (the architect of christianity) was a closet homosexual.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Atheist, like yourself, seem good at using evil reasoning. The Trinity
doctrine is the best way to explain what the the Holy Bilbe has to say
about God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. But you are too influenced by
Satan to see it. 🙄

the bible says there is only one god. it is you has been influenced by satan.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
between the age of 13-20 i think i lusted after every woman i met. now at 35 its every other woman i meet!! but isnt that nearly all men? surly god means people who act upon their lusts have sinned? its a natural response to find woman attractive, being married does not make them unattractive and the human brain has decided if somebody is hot way before ...[text shortened]... thought she's a fine looking lady and if i were single id give her 30seconds of jaywill magic?

between the age of 13-20 i think i lusted after every woman i met. now at 35 its every other woman i meet!! but isnt that nearly all men?

The teaching is a bit of a shock to the male system.

But it is not about seeing beautiful women. And it is not about the first look. It is about the second look.

God made woman beautiful to men and vica versa. Here the second look is not simply seeing a beautiful woman. It is the third step of looking with the intent to lust.

The effect of the teaching on me is to cause me to see how deeply is my need to turn over my mind and emotion and will to the Holy Spirit. You know one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is "self control". And "self control" is a very important ingredient to a joyful and successful married life.

So men and women all need the Lord Jesus.

surly god means people who act upon their lusts have sinned? its a natural response to find woman attractive, being married does not make them unattractive and the human brain has decided if somebody is hot way before you have time to work out the moral implications.

As I wrote before, and will now emphasize - beauty in the woman is the idea of the Creator. Sexual attraction and marriage are also the creation of the Creator. We do not realize the extent to which we are fallen, corrupted, and damaged with greediness and lack of self control.

We simply do not realize how fallen man has become. In the book of First Samuel I think I counted about four or five times that the prophet wrote that some woman was beautiful to look upon.

So there is no sin in seeing attractive women. The gaze as the second look, with the prolonged intent in the imagination, I believe is what the Lord Jesus was exposing.

The disciples knew that this was a difficult saying in Matthew 5:27,28. They could have excluded it because of its problematic nature. Matthew did not exclude it though I am sure that he was a typical man. This candidness to include even difficult statements by the Master impresses me. There is a candidness and a faithfulness in the recording of Christ's words which rings of authenticity.

There is the flavor in the New Testament - "This is what He SAID. What problems it means to me personally is beside the point. You have to know that this is what this extraordinary man SAID."

i dont know how old you are (or what sexual preference or sex) but are you telling me you have never looked at a married woman and thought she's a fine looking lady and if i were single id give her 30seconds of jaywill magic?

Hey, I am a typical man. Need I say more ?

But here's the wonderful, wonderful thing I have discovered. And I can only touch it briefly.

When Jesus died on the cross, I was crucified with Him. In the Holy Spirit there is a extraordinary terminating power. It is true when Paul says -

"I HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST"

The killing off power of His death is in the Holy Spirit. In His presence, when I turn my heart to this living and available Christ, there is a terminating POWER that kills germs in the sinful being.

"It is no longer I that live, but it is Christ Who lives in me."

He does not reform. He terminates and resurrects you in a new state. His Spirit is like an all-nclusive healthy beverage. There is ingredients to KILL off germs. There are ingredients to ADD healthy nutients.

The lust can be TERMINATED and killed off just by the exercisee of faith in the truth - "Lord Jesus, I have been crucified with You. Lord Jesus, I have been buried and raised up with You."

When we receive Jesus and exercise our faith in the divine facts of the new covenant, something empowering of His presence flows into our being. "He who believes into Me, as the Scripture has said out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water."

WE ACTUALLY FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO ENJOY THAN SINS - The Triune God - Christ living in us.

The enjoyment of having Him empower you like the power steering of an automobile makes sinning poor in comparison. It is an enjoyment to mingle with the Holy Spirit.

And one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is "self control". Self control is very useful for many realms of human life. Self control is important to the happy married life too.

God cares for your proper and healthy sexuality. Why not let God be God ? He is the Designer of it all. God designed marriage, human beauty, human sexual attraction, and the joy of the union of man and woman in marriage.

So we all need Jesus.

Originally posted by jaywill

The enjoyment of having Him empower you like the power steering of an automobile makes sinning poor in comparison. .

[/b]

yeah, but id bet you would forget about god for an hour if angelina jolie and your partner wanted a threesome!!!


on a more serious note, why is it a sin to look at a women 3 or 4 times and think sexual thoughts? what exactly does god think is wrong?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
yeah, but id bet you would forget about god for an hour if angelina jolie and your partner wanted a threesome!!!


on a more serious note, why is it a sin to look at a women 3 or 4 times and think sexual thoughts? what exactly does god think is wrong?

It is not just having sexual thoughts, which can be dismissed, but ii is the
lusting that will lead to more serious situations that is the problem. Jesus
did not condemn sexuals thoughts but lusting.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is not just having sexual thoughts, which can be dismissed, but ii is the
lusting that will lead to more serious situations that is the problem. Jesus
did not condemn sexuals thoughts but lusting.

whats the difference? surly you can lust after somebody with out ever acting upon it. sexual thoughts and lust is such a grey area why cant god be more clear so people know where they stand. if the law was not to be physically (with out consent)unfaithful then everybody would have a clear idea of right and wrong, with the vagueness of this and other laws, with so much open to interpretation people can sin with out knowing or the opposite and live scared of feeling or free thought just in case what the feel or think is a sin. i know many people mainly my grandparents and their generation who were so uptight and muted almost afraid to live because they were god fearing folk.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
yeah, but id bet you would forget about god for an hour if angelina jolie and your partner wanted a threesome!!!


on a more serious note, why is it a sin to look at a women 3 or 4 times and think sexual thoughts? what exactly does god think is wrong?

yeah, but id bet you would forget about god for an hour if angelina jolie and your partner wanted a threesome!!!


on a more serious note, why is it a sin to look at a women 3 or 4 times and think sexual thoughts? what exactly does god think is wrong?

Allow me to be a bit serious here.
All I want to say is that the experience of walking by the Holy Spirit is a matter of His light within growing brighter and deeper into the human heart. That is until a man or woman is full of light, full of consciousness and sensativity.

The outward action is not God's goal but deeper into the innermost motive, innermost inclincation. As the Scripture says:

"But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, Which shines brighter and brighter until the full day." (Proverbs 4:18)

This is not a static experience. This is a growing experience. This is a deepening awareness. This is a brighter and brighter inward illumination encreasing a person's wisdom.

The PATH of the righteous is like the dawning of the sun in the eastern sky. Yesterday God shined on your action. Today He shines on your thought process. Tomorrow He shines on your imagination and your inclination. Deeper into your heart He illumines you to reality.

You grow in insight into yourself and into others. With this growth there is also greater humbleness.

You pull your mind out of the thought as a man would pull his hand out from a flame. "Don't go there. Enjoy God within instead."

The peace deepens. This is transformation by the Holy Spirit - gradually more and more into the image of Jesus Christ. Paul writes of this dawning of the day in transformation -

"And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

But we all with unvieled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:17,18)

Transformation in the Christian life is from one degree of glory to another degree of glory to another. From glory to glory even as from the Lord Spirit. This is the path of spiritual growth - like the dawning of an ever brighter and brighter light.

He desires to change the sinner into the image of Jesus Christ. He touches the man deeper and deeper. His goal is to conform the believer into the image of the Firstborn Son of God in taste, attitude, action, inclination, reaction.

"Because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be CONFORMED to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." 9Rom. 8:29)

The believer in Christ is on a traveling journey of having his soul "metabolically" reshaped to be as Christ. This is a life long process. And in this process the motives within and underneath the outward actions come under the control of the Holy Spirit.

The word of the Lord Jesus - "But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman in order to lust after her has alread committed adultery with her in his heart" show something of the deep penetrating regulation God desires in His kingdom.

It is a kingdom of life. It is not a kingdom only of outward religious actions. It is a kingdom of inward regulating by the presence of God's life and nature dispensed into a man's being.

The start of this process is to be born again. If the Christian is normal in experience, this seed of God will grow more and more, saturating him from within. The outward legal action is not regulated first but the inner motives and inclinations of one's tastes.

Again one very experienced Apostle Paul writes:

"But I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh ... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, SELF-CONTROL; against these there is no loaw." (See Galatians 5:16,22-23)

The Christian process of growth and maturity is an encreasing wisdom, inward consciouosness, and growing "SELF-CONTROL" in many matters of human life.

Growing not static and legal.
Not rigid and religious but organic and growing.
That is comfortable, normal feeling, enjoyable and full of wisdom of the proper and righteous human life.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
whats the difference? surly you can lust after somebody with out ever acting upon it. sexual thoughts and lust is such a grey area why cant god be more clear so people know where they stand. if the law was not to be physically (with out consent)unfaithful then everybody would have a clear idea of right and wrong, with the vagueness of this and other law ...[text shortened]... neration who were so uptight and muted almost afraid to live because they were god fearing folk.

You keep fighting against God. You will never understand until you are
willing to humble yourself before God and submit to His love.