Old Testiment law

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
nice effort, but that's not what jesus is saying. he is saying, don't call me good because only god is good and i'm not god.

Christ does not say, "I am not good." He says, Why do you call me good?"
He then clarifies it by saying, "There is none good but God."

This backs up His other claims of being equal with God.
If He was reported to have lived without sin, isn't that good to you?

In chapter 1 of John's gospel, Christ is identified by John as God in the flesh.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
sorry, i did miss it.

thats a big question with many different possibilities. if i was to put my christian god hat on and imagine what he should do -

i would have designed the human body better. the brain would work to a level in which their is no mental illness and would increase mans desire to be socially responsible, thus getting rid of some of ...[text shortened]... n afterlife, i really see no point in living forever. thats just to start.

what would you do?

Well first if you would read the bible and go to Genesis you would read that God did create man with a perfect physical body. Adam would still be alive today if he did not sin. So that would obviously mean that death would not be a problem and that the many things such as sickness and all that includes would not have been a factor. So no mental sickness as you say would be included.
So now that you may or may not see that, it would have included his brain growing with knowledge and wisdom as the generations would pass just as God created us. There is nothing in the universe that compares to the human brain other then God himself. Our brain almost has a limitless ability to learn.
And were you there before the flood to see what the earth looked like? I doubt it. So there is a common sense thought that the flood changed the surface of the earth and the tremendous amount of water and the weight it bore down on the plates of the earth could have easily made parts sink and othe areas rise up.
God would never have created a planet for humans that were supposed to live forever live under the circumstances we live in now on this planet.
And God has never shown himself to mankind. The Bible says "no man may see God and live." The trinity says Jesus is God himself but the Bible clearly says "he is the SON of God."
And again if one were living under the circumstances that God originally created for us then living forever would be easy and a beautiful thing to experiance. If he created us to die from the beginning that would be cruel and it would no doubt be in our nature to not think twice about it. But let someone put a gun to your head and I think you'd think about wanting to live and not die.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
then does this imply that god/ jesus is the only good thing? or is it saying that if you achieve goodness then you are a god?

why is every bloody line in the bible open to so much interpretation. it makes it so hard to make any sense of it. how did god get it past his editor?

then does this imply that god/ jesus is the only good thing? or is it sayin that if you achieve goodness then you are a god?

Something like that. We become sons of God through His salvation.

In this case "sons of God" means men and women into whom God has been dispensed. They are organically united with God to be in His divine family.

Originally posted by jaywill

then does this imply that god/ jesus is the only good thing? or is it sayin that if you achieve goodness then you are a god?

Something like that. We become [b] sons of God through His salvation.

In this case "sons of God" means men and women into whom God has been dispensed. They are organically united with God to be in His divine family.[/b]

Just a question my friend. What do you mean by organically?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Christ does not say, "I am not good." He says, Why do you call me good?"
He then clarifies it by saying, "There is none good but God."

This backs up His other claims of being equal with God.
If He was reported to have lived without sin, isn't that good to you?

In chapter 1 of John's gospel, Christ is identified by John as God in the flesh.

jesus never claims to be equal with god. he always places himself as subordinate. you would know this if you had read the bible.

and in these two verses, he is clearly admonishing the man for calling him good, saying that only god is good. this is the true reading of these verses.

Originally posted by galveston75
Good comment buddy...

thanks Gman, its pleasant to see a friendly face or comment as the case may be! 🙂

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
jesus never claims to be equal with god. he always places himself as subordinate. you would know this if you had read the bible.

and in these two verses, he is clearly admonishing the man for calling him good, saying that only god is good. this is the true reading of these verses.

You said, "jesus never claims to be equal with god." I think you should
reread the Holy Bible and consider His many statements, like these:

"I and my Father are one." (John 10:30)

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now
on you know Him and have seen Him.”

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known
Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say,
‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the
Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own
authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I
am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the
works themselves." (John 14:7-11 NKJV)

When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are
forgiven you.”
And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts,
“Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but
God alone?” (Mark 2:5-7 NKJV)

Jesus also claimed He should be honored as God and never refused worship.

"For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives
life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all
judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent
Him." (John 5:21-23 NKJV)



These are just a few examples.

Even though He was equal to God, He humbled himself to come to mankind in
the flesh and submitted Himself to the will of the Father, so the Father could
exalt Him by giving Him all authority. (Philippians 2:5-11)

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me
in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
(Matthew 28:18-19 NKJV)

Originally posted by RJHinds
You said, "jesus never claims to be equal with god." I think you should
reread the Holy Bible and consider His many statements, like these:

"I and my Father are one." (John 10:30)

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now
on you know Him and have seen Him.”

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is s n the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
(Matthew 28:18-19 NKJV)

(Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus,
 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure,
namely, that he should be equal to God. . .

"Well first if you would read the bible and go to Genesis you would read that God did create man with a perfect physical body. Adam would still be alive today if he did not sin. So that would obviously mean that death would not be a problem and that the many things such as sickness and all that includes would not have been a factor. So no mental sickness as you say would be included."


but sadly mental illness is a part of our lives and causes countless human tragedies, all because 1 human a very longtime ago was a bit naughty and ate an apple!!! and the human body develops all these problems. i think this makes me a better god as i wouldnt have put the god damn apple there in the first place and even if i did, i wouldnt throw a hissy fit and punish people for thousands of years. lets look at the balance - 1 human disobeys an important rule - punishment - 7000 years of rape,war,murder, disease, pedophilia and so on, great stuff god.

"There is nothing in the universe that compares to the human brain other then God himself. Our brain almost has a limitless ability to learn."

well it depends how you are drawing your comparison and what scale you are using. you could compare a human brain and any mammal, if the scale was life on earth, the human brain and mammal brain would be quiet close. if you are talking chemistry then the human brain isnt that much different to a baked bean on the scale of things.
the human brain doesnt have a limitless ability to learn. there are several factors why, the main being the brain has a limited size there is only so much information it can contain, you cannot go out and by an extra hard drive and attach it.
this wonderful brain designed by god failed at the first hurdle, fresh out of the box as god wanted it and it cant get past the temptation challenge. i though it was after the sin that the body starts to fail? mmmmn.


"So there is a common sense thought that the flood changed the surface of the earth and the tremendous amount of water and the weight it bore down on the plates of the earth could have easily made parts sink and othe areas rise up."

no, no there is no common sense thought going on here. go and talk to a geologist. okay lets pretend that this would happen if there was a giant flood....i thought the flood was to wipe away evil? but evil came back? why have the flood if nothing has changed? the flood made the plates move and make mountains, now the flood is gone why are they still moving and making new mountains?

"God would never have created a planet for humans that were supposed to live forever live under the circumstances we live in now on this planet."

why? why not? what circumstances will we live in?

"living forever would be easy and a beautiful thing to experiance"

why would living forever be a beautiful thing?

"If he created us to die from the beginning that would be cruel"

ive been told on here several times that those of us who do not believe will either die or be sent to hell.......sounds cruel to me.


"But let someone put a gun to your head and I think you'd think about wanting to live and not die"

i dont really understand the point you are making, of coarse i dont want to die by being shot in the head, how is this relevant to anything

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"Well first if you would read the bible and go to Genesis you would read that God did create man with a perfect physical body. Adam would still be alive today if he did not sin. So that would obviously mean that death would not be a problem and that the many things such as sickness and all that includes would not have been a factor. So no mental sicknes ...[text shortened]... se i dont want to die by being shot in the head, how is this relevant to anything

The Christ had not yet come, so the flood was required at that time.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Christ had not yet come, so the flood was required at that time.

required to do what?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
(Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus,
 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure,
namely, that he should be equal to God. . .

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:5-11 NASB)

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. (Philippians 2:5-7 NKJV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”

(John 1:1-4, 10-15 NKJV)

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"Well first if you would read the bible and go to Genesis you would read that God did create man with a perfect physical body. Adam would still be alive today if he did not sin. So that would obviously mean that death would not be a problem and that the many things such as sickness and all that includes would not have been a factor. So no mental sicknes se i dont want to die by being shot in the head, how is this relevant to anything

First I want to say thanks for discussing this with what seems to be with an honest way of asking.
So why did God put that tree there? Why not create them and then walk off and let them do their thing?
Are you a parent? If so what kind of parent would you be to have children and then walk off and say "see you later"?
Adam & Eve were perfect physically but they were still free to do what they thought they should do.
But God knew thru his infiniate wisdom knew that in order for the human race to survive and survive on a beautiful and happy planet there would have to be laws and guidlines and consiquences if anyone did not follow those laws. Would you agree?
But they didn't follow that one simple thing God told them not to do and unfortunently it was Adam and Eve that did not obey God. If it would have been some distant offspring that did this and if Satan hadn't become the thing he did and challenged Jehovah's right to be our God, then possibly God would have simply removed that offspring and things might have been settled then and not have progressed into the world we see today. But it was our first parents that disobeyed God and once that sin happened then we all have inherited that sin and we all now do die.
As far as the human brain especially compaired to any animal brains on this planet, it appears we have almost a limited ability to learn. Science cannot prove there is a limit.
But the brain did not fail in any kind of physical sense. It was a decision by Adam that was wrong. God did not create a robot. If he had created us that way then we would not be a human.
Also with the flood and the affects that the amount of water and that weight would have had on the surface of the planet would have easily done the things we see on the surface now. Science can not prove that it couldn't have done this. Squeeze on a ballon with your hands and see what happens to it's shape.
And the flood as said by God was to "cleanze the surface of the earth of all evil". God knew that Satan was still alive as well as the demons in heaven, did he not? He als knew that the humans that were in the ark were imperfect did he not?
So god knew what was needed to fix what was a very bad situation on earth. We were not there to see what the conditions were but for there to be only 8 good humans left on the planet, it had to be bad.

"So why did God put that tree there? Why not create them and then walk off and let them do their thing?
Are you a parent? If so what kind of parent would you be to have children and then walk off and say "see you later"?"

you are adding outcomes to a premise that do not need to be there. why are we saying they have to walk off on their own?
yes i am a parent and no i wouldnt let my kids walk off and do their own thing. also i wouldnt leave a tempting cake in the living room and then punish my kids for the rest of their lives if i came back and they had eaten it.
we still dont know why god put the tree there.

"But God knew thru his infiniate wisdom knew that in order for the human race to survive and survive on a beautiful and happy planet there would have to be laws and guidlines and consiquences if anyone did not follow those laws. Would you agree?"

i agree that rules can be good and im a firm believer in consequences. but the punishment must fit the crime. there isnt a sane person in the land that would punish trillions of children because of their parents mistakes.
why do we have to inherit adam and eves sin. you talk like its a natural progression of logic...but its not, it isnt..its bananas..its not the only way things could be. there is no universal rule that says it has to be like this. god has created a bunch of arbitrary rules to goven man. he could have picked a whole bunch of other rules, because he isnt subject to any rules there is no restriction on how and what rules he bestows on man. if things were fixed and there was only one possible outcome to adam and eves actions then god would be limited in what he can do. if he is limited then he isnt all powerfull and is subject to laws governed from else where.

"As far as the human brain especially compaired to any animal brains on this planet, it appears we have almost a limited ability to learn. Science cannot prove there is a limit."


why cant science prove their is a limit? do you think science has proven anything?

"But the brain did not fail in any kind of physical sense. It was a decision by Adam that was wrong"

this makes in sense. you are separating adam from is brain. if adam made an epic-ally wrong decision then is brain was programmed to behave like that and as he had no parents you can blame his up bringing so the weakness was already hardwired in his brain.

"Squeeze on a ballon with your hands and see what happens to it's shape."

whats squeezing a balloon got to do with the earth and water? you could just say anything - have you squeezed a squirrel with a vice - have ever crushed a sponge cake with a claw hammer. sorry i dont mean to be rude but this is crazy talk.
if you did want to make a vaguely scientific analogy then id go for - try squeezing a rock with your hands.
listen im not saying water cant wash away earth to form some hills and mountains. thats kinda what happened in the ice age. but it does my head in when people belittle the work of science. you are happy to accept science in your everyday life without saying they dont know what they are talking about. i bet you enjoy electricity and you plasma tv and your car and the hospital and all the other joys science as brought us. these things in your life may look simple but have amazing complicated science behind them that works, but the minute science looks at something that chrisitans dont like then all of a sudden scientists become a bunch of idiots who cant prove anything and cant be trusted.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"So why did God put that tree there? Why not create them and then walk off and let them do their thing?
Are you a parent? If so what kind of parent would you be to have children and then walk off and say "see you later"?"

you are adding outcomes to a premise that do not need to be there. why are we saying they have to walk off on their own?
yes ...[text shortened]... en scientists become a bunch of idiots who cant prove anything and cant be trusted.

When the kids are grown. They walk off and leave the parents.
The parents must let them go and learn about the world on their own.
The eventually they may learn to appreciate the parents and learn to
love them in return.

The brain is an aid to the mind, which is the heart and soul of the person.
The mind still functions for the soul, but can not communicate with the
body without the brain.