1. Windsor, Ontario
    Joined
    10 Jun '11
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    3829
    06 Mar '12 18:45
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You said, "jesus never claims to be equal with god." I think you should
    reread the Holy Bible and consider His many statements, like these:

    "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30)

    “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now
    on you know Him and have seen Him.”

    Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is s ...[text shortened]... n the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
    (Matthew 28:18-19 NKJV)
    you have absolutely no idea what the bible is talking about.
  2. Joined
    16 Jan '07
    Moves
    95105
    06 Mar '12 18:59
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    When the kids are grown. They walk off and leave the parents.
    The parents must let them go and learn about the world on their own.
    The eventually they may learn to appreciate the parents and learn to
    love them in return.

    The brain is an aid to the mind, which is the heart and soul of the person.
    The mind still functions for the soul, but can not communicate with the
    body without the brain.
    a parent prepares a child for the world and when a child is suffering no matter how old they are their parents come and help them. they dont sit back and say "i dont care if you are in pain and need help you shouldnt have stolen that apple of me 20 years ago, sort it out yourself"

    the brain is your mind. the heart is just an organ that pumps blood.
    are you saying human thought exists outside of the brain, our moral decisions are made by the soul?
  3. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    06 Mar '12 23:222 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    "So why did God put that tree there? Why not create them and then walk off and let them do their thing?
    Are you a parent? If so what kind of parent would you be to have children and then walk off and say "see you later"?"

    you are adding outcomes to a premise that do not need to be there. why are we saying they have to walk off on their own?
    yes en scientists become a bunch of idiots who cant prove anything and cant be trusted.
    See if this helps a little:

    Eden’s fruit trees were all there for man to eat from “to satisfaction.” (Ge 2:16) But one tree, that “of the knowledge of good and bad,” was placed off limits for the human pair. Eve quoted Jehovah’s prohibition given to her husband as including even the ‘touching’ of the tree, with the penalty of death to result from disrespect for and violation of the divine law. (Ge 2:17; 3:3) Traditional teachings have attempted to explain the prohibited fruit in a variety of ways: as a symbol of sexual intercourse, represented by an “apple”; as standing for the mere cognizance of right and wrong; and as the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity and also through experience, which knowledge can be put to a good or a bad use. Yet, in view of the Creator’s command to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth” (Ge 1:28), sexual intercourse must be rejected as being what the tree’s fruit represented, for in what other way could procreation and multiplication have been effected? The mere ability to recognize right and wrong most certainly cannot be meant, for obedience to God’s command required of sinless man that he be able to exercise such moral discrimination. Nor could the knowledge attained upon reaching maturity be meant, for it would not be sin on man’s part to reach this state, nor would his Creator logically obligate him to remain in an immature state.
    As to the genus of the tree, the Scriptural record is silent. But it becomes apparent that the tree of the knowledge of good and bad symbolized the divine right or prerogative, which man’s Creator retains, to designate to his creatures what is “good” and what is “bad,” thereafter properly requiring the practice of that which is declared good and the abstention from that which is pronounced bad in order to remain approved by God as Sovereign Ruler. Both the prohibition and the subsequent pronouncement of the sentence passed upon the disobedient pair emphasize the fact that it was the act of disobedience in eating the prohibited fruit that constituted the original sin.—Ge 3:3.
    While some modern critics may balk at the very simplicity of the Edenic account, it should be obvious that the actual circumstances made a simple test most fitting. The life of the newly created man and woman was simple, not complicated and encumbered with all the complex problems, predicaments, and perplexity that disobedience to God has since brought to the human race. Nonetheless, for all its simplicity, the test succinctly and admirably expresses the universal truth of God’s sovereignty as well as man’s dependence upon God and his duty toward God. And it must be said that, while simple, the account of Eden’s events presents matters on an infinitely higher level than those theories that would place man’s start, not in a garden, but in a cave, representing him as both crudely ignorant and without moral sense. The simplicity of the test in Eden illustrates the principle stated millenniums later by God’s Son, that “the person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.”—Lu 16:10.
    Eden’s having this proscribed tree within it, however, was clearly not intended to serve as a thorn in the flesh of the human pair, nor was it so designated in order to raise an issue, or to serve as the subject for debate. If Adam and Eve had acknowledged God’s will in the matter and had respected his instructions, their garden home would have continued unmarred as a place of pleasure and delight. The record shows that the issue and debate over the tree, along with the temptation to violate God’s ordinance, were thrust upon mankind by God’s Adversary the Devil. (Ge 3:1-6; compare Re 12:9.) Adam and Eve’s exercise of their will, as free moral agents, in rebellion against God’s rightful sovereignty led to their loss of Paradise and the blessedness of its confines. Of even graver consequence, they lost the opportunity to partake of another of Eden’s trees, this one representing the right to life everlasting. Thus the account says that Jehovah “drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.”—Ge 3:22-24.
    From the IT book #2.

    So you say the punishment must fit the crime. Did not God tell them clearly that they would die even just by touching the tree? You have to remember they were perfect humans and that sin did not happen as it does to us today. We all sin even if by mistake. They did not. Any mistakes they were to make were done on purpose and thought out and comitted with intent and knowledge of clearly knowing what would happen as a result.
    God knew that once they might have partaken of that tree that they would now have set into action that we all would then suffer from the many things you have mentioned that aren't terrible but still a fact. So as a result of that action by them and disobeying the clear command not to touch it and also knowing that all their decendants would suffer and experiance death, he sentenanced them to death. A life for a life in affect.
    So as our first parents were now not perfect physically they could not pass on physical perfection to us and that's the reason we all sin and all eventually die.
    And no God did not hardwire anyone to sin but he gave us free choise to make decisions and Adam and Eve decided to go against what God told them not to do.
    If God had hardwired us then we would not be human and Adam would not have sinned, but he did right? So that statement by you makes no sense.
    And I'm not talking of squezzing one rock but the surface of the earth which is floating is it not? You know what I'm saying....
  4. Windsor, Ontario
    Joined
    10 Jun '11
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    3829
    07 Mar '12 00:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of deat ...[text shortened]... e who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”

    (John 1:1-4, 10-15 NKJV)
    you can deny the scriptures, but it will not change what the scriptures say.

    "When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all." (I Cor. 15:28)

    you probably don't know what subjected means. let me tell you. it means subordinate.
    also, note how it says to the "One..."
    in case you were wondering, that means "not three"


    what does john have to say about it?

    "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

    ooh, foiled again. you really should read the bible sometime.

    and again...

    "But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. " (1 Cr 11:3)

    the evidence just keeps piling up against your ignorance.
  5. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    07 Mar '12 00:472 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just a question my friend. What do you mean by organically?
    Just a question my friend. What do you mean by organically?

    "Organically" is a word some of us use to emphasize that it is a matter of two actual lives being united. It is a matter of life, divine and human life united and blended together.

    When the New Testament says that Christ makes His home in our hearts through faith (Eph. 3:17) this is not a sentimental matter. It is a matter of a living Person who has an unusual ability to unite with man.

    THis is like the grafting of a branch into a tree so that the grafted branch takes in all the nutients of the tree. It is not merely an organizational relationship. It is a relationship in life. It is a relationship of the blending together of two lives "organically".
  6. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    07 Mar '12 01:00
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Just a question my friend. What do you mean by organically?

    "Organically" is a word some of us use to emphasize that it is a matter of two actual lives being united. It is a matter of life, divine and human life united and blended together.

    When the New Testament says that Christ makes His home in our hearts through faith [b](Eph ...[text shortened]... ionship in life. It is a relationship of the blending together of two lives "organically".
    Thanks for your answer. But it seems vague in it being explained by scripture. So are you saying that blood and flesh physically is bound somehow with a spirit being?
  7. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    07 Mar '12 02:43
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Thanks for your answer. But it seems vague in it being explained by scripture. So are you saying that blood and flesh physically is bound somehow with a spirit being?
    Thanks for your answer. But it seems vague in it being explained by scripture. So are you saying that blood and flesh physically is bound somehow with a spirit being?


    It is best to go WITH the utterance of the Scriptures. It is best to take the word of God for what it said and how it said it, in faith.

    "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

    Who is "the last Adam" ? He is Jesus Christ.
    What did the last Adam become according to 1 Cor. 15:45 ?
    He "became a life giving Spirit".

    The giving of life is the giving of Himself to us as spiritual life. When this spiritual life is given He caused us to be born again. And this is not a re-physical birth. It is a birth of something within us of a God consciousness which is intimate and personal.

    He came that we might have divine life (John 10:10). He came that we might have it more abundantly. Since He IS the life (John 14:6) the giving of life is the giving of Himself.

    The last Adam became a life giving Spirit to give Himself into us. He became a life giving Spirit to impart the Person of Himself to us.

    The truth is very profound. And we search for helpful expressions. So I used the word "organic".

    Eventually this divine life which Christ the last Adam became and gives, and that more abundantly, will permeate the soul of the receiver and swallow up even his physical body.

    "For also, we who are in this tabernacle groan, being burdened, in that we do not desire to be unclothed, but clothed upon, that what is mortal may be SWALLOWED UP IN LIFE." (my emphasis, 2 Cor. 5:5)

    So from the new birth to the resurrection and rapture Christ Who has become a "life giving Spirit" works from the center to the circumference of man's being. That is to permeate and saturate and eventually swallow up man in divine and eternal life.

    This is an "organic" union of God with man. This is "so great a salvation".
  8. Joined
    16 Jan '07
    Moves
    95105
    07 Mar '12 11:46
    Originally posted by galveston75
    See if this helps a little:


    So you say the punishment must fit the crime. Did not God tell them clearly that they would die even just by touching the tree? You have to remember they were perfect humans and that sin did not happen as it does to us today. We all sin even if by mistake. They did not. Any mistakes they were to make were done on purpose ...[text shortened]... rock but the surface of the earth which is floating is it not? You know what I'm saying....
    was adam bad before he touched the apple?
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