Please pray for this family....

Originally posted by galveston75
That said I abhor the lack of compassion FMF has shown and that is my opinion.

How is criticizing you for your vanity in any way demonstrating a lack of compassion for Whitney Heichel and her family? Why must you try to make this family's tragedy about you?

Originally posted by googlefudge
And world peace, don't forget world peace.

Unfortunately the Bible says that will not happen until Christ return. As I said before carnal minds cannot comprehend spiritual matters.

Mock all you want, it doesn't bother me. It shows your true heart in a thread about a poor little girl. You should be ashamed but obviously you have no shame.

Originally posted by boonon
Unfortunately the Bible says that will not happen until Christ return. As I said before carnal minds cannot comprehend spiritual matters.

Mock all you want, it doesn't bother me. It shows your true heart in a thread about a poor little girl. You should be ashamed but obviously you have no shame.

its actually a very serious point. why would a christian pray to save one person when they could just as easily pray to save lots of people? why would a christian be happy with a god who has saved their friend from cancer but lets millions of other die of cancer? can you think of one good reason? the reason many of the atheist have responded the way they have is because to a logical mind praying is morally wrong and in particular the selective process of answering prayers is disgusting. until somebody can give a good reason why it isnt then atheist will continue to think like that. atheist on here may seem like they are being cruel, but from our perspective the whole prayer system is cruel.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
its actually a very serious point. why would a christian pray to save one person when they could just as easily pray to save lots of people? why would a christian be happy with a god who has saved their friend from cancer but lets millions of other die of cancer? can you think of one good reason? the reason many of the atheist have responded the way the ...[text shortened]... e may seem like they are being cruel, but from our perspective the whole prayer system is cruel.

I can only speak for myself. I do pray for everyone. It may help if you join me. If you or anyone else are un happy with God I suggest you take it up with him. You will have your chance....

Don't bash me because you don't agree with me or my God. It seems childish. I do not agree with your unbelief but I leave your thoughts to you and your atheist friends who have responded in kind, like you say. I assume you are speaking for them .. Correct?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
its actually a very serious point. why would a christian pray to save one person when they could just as easily pray to save lots of people? why would a christian be happy with a god who has saved their friend from cancer but lets millions of other die of cancer? can you think of one good reason? the reason many of the atheist have responded the way the ...[text shortened]... e may seem like they are being cruel, but from our perspective the whole prayer system is cruel.

P.S

If you don't believe in prayer why even bother to be in this thread. I get the point , you needing some explanation means nothing to me. No matter what I could tell you, you would not believe anyhow. You and your friends are just 'barking' to bark.

Galveston was obviously only asking people who believed in the power of prayer to pray. You cant honestly tell me you thought he was asking for 'you' atheist to pray, can you?

Originally posted by boonon
I can only speak for myself. I do pray for everyone. It may help if you join me. If you or anyone else are un happy with God I suggest you take it up with him. You will have your chance....

Don't bash me because you don't agree with me or my God. It seems childish. I do not agree with your unbelief but I leave your thoughts to you and your atheist friends who have responded in kind, like you say. I assume you are speaking for them .. Correct?

it may have escaped your attention but this is a forum, a place for public speaking. if you come to speak here then you are opening the floor to debate. if it was a private call to prayer then galveston could have done it in other ways.

you certainly have a right to pray and i would defend that right every day of the week. however prayer to me seem morally wrong, i am yet to have anybody try and explain how the moral complexities of prayer work, or how they can justify the actions of gods way of dealing with prayer. so i come to a forum to discuss, learn and debate. i can hardly see the point of people coming to a forum to not discuss their thoughts.


I assume you are speaking for them .. Correct?

incorrect, i dont speak for them, i can say what i think their motives and feelings are on the subject, but i dont speak for them. until they accept me as their leader, then i will 😉

Originally posted by stellspalfie
it may have escaped your attention but this is a forum, a place for public speaking. if you come to speak here then you are opening the floor to debate. if it was a private call to prayer then galveston could have done it in other ways.

you certainly have a right to pray and i would defend that right every day of the week. however prayer to me seem m ...[text shortened]... on the subject, but i dont speak for them. until they accept me as their leader, then i will 😉

Maybe you do come to debate. The others only seem to ridicule and mock. If you don't believe in God and prayer than there is nothing I can tell you that will change that. That is a path you must walk.

Hopefully without offending you I will pray that God reveals himself to you in some tangible way so that you can receive him and all his glory.

Yes it is a public forum open to debate, but I still stand my assertion that Galveston was only asking believers to pray. We do not have a 'believers only' spirituality forum. I also think that if he did preface his thread with believers please pray only, that he would have been ridiculed for leaving atheist out.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
it may have escaped your attention but this is a forum, a place for public speaking. if you come to speak here then you are opening the floor to debate. if it was a private call to prayer then galveston could have done it in other ways.

you certainly have a right to pray and i would defend that right every day of the week. however prayer to me seem m ...[text shortened]... on the subject, but i dont speak for them. until they accept me as their leader, then i will 😉

I think the point that a few of you are missing is I didn't post this as a debate thread. I know it's an open site to post ones thoughts. I'm fine with that on other threads.
But this is a very sad and delicate subject, I think, and I see others feel that way too. I would have hoped that ones who may disagree with me on other subjects would have shown a little more kindness and respect to this situation and save their comments to show a level of respect and sympathy to this situation.
I feel very bad for this family that my son knows and I would have thought the few that don't always see things my way would have responded better.

Originally posted by galveston75
I think the point that a few of you are missing is I didn't post this as a debate thread. I know it's an open site to post ones thoughts. I'm fine with that on other threads.
But this is a very sad and delicate subject, I think, and I see others feel that way too. I would have hoped that ones who may disagree with me on other subjects would have shown ...[text shortened]... would have thought the few that don't always see things my way would have responded better.

Yet it's not the situation nor the abducted women or her family that is "not being shown respect".

It's your call to pray for them and your response to our responses that is not being treated with
respect.

With the possible exception of dasa (because frankly who can tell) I don't think anyone here has
anything but sympathy for this woman and her friends/family.

I sympathise with what you must be feeling as someone with a family member directly effected by this.

But that isn't going to stop me pointing out that while it might make you feel better praying isn't actually
doing anything helpful or productive and doesn't actually work.
And that's because I do care about people and do care when they get in trouble and because I care I
like to see things actually being done to help.
Now I am not suggesting that you could help find this girl and aren't because your too busy praying.
Unless they are calling for help this is probably best left to the professionals.
An eager amateur could quite possibly destroy crucial evidence and hinder an investigation.
And comforting and assisting those effected is important and I am sure you are doing that (with your son at
least).
But many times people do mistake praying for action, and people can really get hurt because of it.
The stories about people who only sought medical treatment after it was too late because they had kept
praying for it to be cured and hadn't gone to the doctor....

There is a joke that often does the rounds about a theist (often a Jewish or Christian man) who is
stranded on a rock as the tide comes in and who prays for god to save him.
And then a succession of boats and helicopters turn up offering to save him and he turns them all
down saying that god would save him.
He drowns.
And then when standing in front of god he asks why god didn't save him and god says that he sent
all these people/boats/helicopters/planes to help what more did he want.

My point.

Believe/don't believe, but never mistake praying for actually doing something or being helpful.

What will save anyone will be action not wishful thinking.

So while it might hurt, I still prefer to tell the truth, and try to make sure that people do, rather than wish.

(also this could serve as a heads up to any theist out there... if you do find an atheist who is in trouble and
you want to help... telling them you are going to pray for them, might not get the response you were expecting)

Originally posted by googlefudge
Yet it's not the situation nor the abducted women or her family that is "not being shown respect".

It's your call to pray for them and your response to our responses that is not being treated with
respect.

With the possible exception of dasa (because frankly who can tell) I don't think anyone here has
anything but sympathy for this woman and he them you are going to pray for them, might not get the response you were expecting)

That is your opinion on hope and praying to God. I view it as that but do not agree at all. You've made your point so be it.
But don't at this point criticize those of us that do believe in God and what prayer can do. That is wrong and not cool at all dude. That is what you are missing here...
I personally would never go to a post you may have posted here about a simular situation you or one of your family members were experiancing, and making some kind of comment that would upset you about your belief or opinions when ones life is obviously at stake...ever.

Originally posted by galveston75
I personally would never go to a post you may have posted here about a simular situation you or one of your family members were experiancing, and making some kind of comment that would upset you about your belief or opinions when ones life is obviously at stake...ever.

We've heard an awful lot about how you feel, how distressed you are, what you think, etc. etc. and yet you still haven't even mentioned the victim's name. As soon as you started suggesting that prayer could have an actual effect on the actual tragedy facing that family, you were making the thread about yourself. And to top it off, you characterize me upsetting you as being a lack of compassion for the family and an example of "Satan at work". You have some cheek, galveston75.

Originally posted by FMF
We've heard an awful lot about how you feel, how distressed you are, what you think, etc. etc. and yet you still haven't even mentioned the victim's name. As soon as you started suggesting that prayer could have an actual effect on the actual tragedy facing that family, you were making the thread about yourself. And to top it off, you characterize [i]me upsettin ...[text shortened]... passion for the family and an example of "Satan at work". You have some cheek, galveston75.

Are you even from this planet?

Originally posted by galveston75
Are you even from this planet?

You claim I have shown a lack of compassion for for Whitney Heichel and her family. Can you show me where?

Originally posted by FMF
You claim I have shown a lack of compassion for for Whitney Heichel and her family. Can you show me where?

Uh...everywhere with ever statement you've made. Where have you once said something nice, humane, comforting, concerned, sorry, in pain, wish you could help if you could, hope they find her soon, sorry for her parents, sorry for her husband, I hope she's ok, I hope she's alive, let me know what I might hear and pass it along to you as soon as I do, etc, etc??????????????????????????
No clue huh? So far all you've done is b__ch!

Originally posted by galveston75
That is your opinion on hope and praying to God. I view it as that but do not agree at all. You've made your point so be it.
But don't at this point criticize those of us that do believe in God and what prayer can do. That is wrong and not cool at all dude. That is what you are missing here...
I personally would never go to a post you may have posted ...[text shortened]... hat would upset you about your belief or opinions when ones life is obviously at stake...ever.

That is your opinion on hope and praying to God. I view it as that but do not agree at all. You've made your point so be it.

Hope? where did I mention hope?

I have nothing against hope, just against mistaking wishing for something as taking action.

And it's not (just) my opinion. The evidence says that praying doesn't work.

But don't at this point criticize those of us that do believe in God and what prayer can do. That is wrong and not cool at all dude.
That is what you are missing here...

Why is it wrong?

There are some (new agers in particular) who talk bunk about truth being relative and one persons version of truth being as valid as any other.

However that is just plain nonsense.

There is only one reality and truth is measured against it.

While you (everyone) have the right to believe whatever you like that doesn't make what you believe right or good.

If I have (and I do) a justifiable reason for believing that your doing something bad/unhealthy/immoral/wrong/ect then why is it wrong to point this out?

Is it not worse to allow the person to keep doing the thing that's wrong simply to avoid hurting their feelings?

I personally would never go to a post you may have posted here about a simular situation you or one of your family members were experiancing,
and making some kind of comment that would upset you about your belief or opinions when ones life is obviously at stake...ever.

Ok. Well I appreciate the sentiment behind that.

But I would say that this is probably not the right place to post something like this if you didn't want it discussed and considered.
I wouldn't post here something I wasn't prepared to have discussed and dissected.

I would also point out that while you (and I will take you at your word here) might not try to press your religion on people who are vulnerable and upset.
There are many people who do do just that. Walking hospital wards trying to convert sick and dying patients, preying on prisoners and drug addicts ect.

There are many who will use a situation like the one you describe in the op to get more people into their religion.

By asking people to pray for a good outcome....



That is where the hostile response comes from.